In the aftermath of the Santa Barbara shootings, the topic of misogyny came back into the media with a backlash, a counter-punch, and a lot of arguments.
The reason everyone is arguing so much is that humans like to have clean answers:
Are men walking around with anger towards women or aren’t they?
But there are no clean answers here. The truth of human nature is that it’s messy, inconsistent, and almost always full of contradictions.
If you don’t like people that are messy, inconsistent, and full of contradictions, not only do you not like other humans, you don’t like your self either.
While Elliot Rodgers was a disturbed and psychopathic murderer, his rage towards women was extremely common, and maybe even “normal”.
Yes, I am saying that virtually all men (certainly straight men), feel some degree of rage towards women because of sexual rejection, feelings of powerlessness, and sexual frustration.
Of course we know that the vast majority of men don’t go around shooting people over it, and I’ll say that for MOST men, their level of anger towards women is buried enough that it does not even come up in their daily thoughts.
Because, importantly, most men also LOVE women.
We love the way you laugh, the way you make us feel inside when you touch our arm, play with your hair, smile at us, and, of course, we can’t get enough of it when you surrender to us sexually.
Is this a contradiction? Yes, but contradictions are a normal part of life.
We are huge compared to atoms and molecules and tiny compared to the stars and galaxies… and normal men feel both anger and boundless love for women.
(It’s worth a quick note to say that women also love and hate men, and I’ll explore that more deeply next time).
So against a sea of men who are saying, “not me! I’m not like those immature and angry men who don’t like women,” I’m going to stand by my assertion and say that if you dig deeply enough into the primordial emotions of every man from “the player” to the “socially inept virgin” to “the loving husband,” you will find that latent anger that still smolders from early rejections, break ups, and feelings of inadequacy that women trigger in us that we don’t even understand.
And I think it’s worth dragging them out from beneath all of our noble and loving thoughts towards women, and looking at them in the full light of day for 3 reasons:
1) It helps us have more compassion for women, who will forever have to deal with that part of us. No matter how hard we suppress it in relationship, it may yet lash out in angry words when we are triggered and feeling insecure.
Understanding it and knowing what it looks like, gives us the perspective to tame it and to forgive ourselves for being human when we don’t.
2) It helps us have more compassion for ourselves and understand how it is to be a human.
THE DEEPEST SOURCE OF AUTHENTIC CONFIDENCE that I am aware of begins with coming to relaxed and positive terms with being a human, and all of the messiness and flaws and contradictions that this condition entails.
3) It helps us understand other men who are still wallowing in disappointment, shame, impotent anger, and loss at their inability to find ease in their relationship with the opposite sex, and for whom the rage of Elliot Rodgers is well understood and felt (though, obviously without the psychopathic component).
And while many men will continue to deny that they have these feelings buried inside of them, smart marketers are well aware of human nature and capitalize on male rage towards women every day in advertisements.
The worst of these are the advertisements for companies that teach men how to attract women. Whether we call them PUA’s or dating advice sites or dating coaches, nearly all of them have jumped on the band wagon of featuring sales copy that says:
“Women are outraged that I’m sharing these secrets, they don’t want you to know this because they don’t want you to have power over them, and they are trying to shut this site down so you can’t learn these secret and powerful ways of seducing them into having sex with you!”
(As if! In reality women are over-joyed if a man learns how to get past his fear and shame and becomes good at flirting and seduction).
Now the reason that every single one of these sites has adopted this message is simple:
It speaks to the adolescent boy in every man who, early in puberty, discovered that he really, really wanted free access to vaginas everywhere, and that he was not allowed, because girls had the right to say, “no.”
All little boys feel this frustration as they first discover their sexuality, and we all go through the phase of thinking of women as the obstacle to getting that secret treasure between their legs.
And, ideally, all little boys eventually grow out of that phase and begin to understand that the woman and the vagina are not separate, but rather one delicious and wondrous package of divine perfection.
In other words, we grow up and learn to love the woman, not just the sex.
Of course in every generation, even among long-married men in their 70s who went through a very different world growing up, there are men who simply never mature out of that adolescent view that women are the obstacle to the vagina, and remain sexually like little boys.
It’s my observation that the number of those men as a percentage of a generation has grown rapidly in the last 10 years, and I believe that it is a direct result of the proliferation of these “dating coaches” and “PUA culture.”
I am certainly not accusing anyone of maliciously worsening the relationships between men and women, and certainly no PUA idea is responsible for the killings in Santa Barbara, nor did they invent male anger towards women.
However, it’s my perspective that teaching men “simple ideas that work” to gain short term attraction from women can prevent them from ever learning how to grow out of that phase.
Because so much of what these folks teach DOES work in the short term, it can prevent a man from ever reaching the point of self esteem and self trust to move beyond these “tactics” that perpetuate and endorse the idea that women are obstacles and enemies that must be tricked or pacified in order to gain access to the vaginas.
Feel like this is terribly one sided? GOOD! Check out my post on why all women are so pissed off with men!
I want an emotional connection with a man when I have sex with him. It makes the “event” so much more enjoyable. Is that too much too ask for? Men want the cookie, women want the feelings – I think it works best when both get what they want/need.
Lori, I appreciate your sentiment AND I encourage you to re-read your own words that stereotype men into a group of creatures that don’t want feelings, and infantilize them as only wanting a “cookie”.
And while your experience might look like that, you know that this is not the case for all men and that you are demonstrating for me the next post I’ll make: “Why Women Hate Men”.
I hope you’ll examine this because just as men are going to lead happier, fuller, more powerful and complete lives if they can understand and then dismiss their hatred for women, YOUR life is going to be much happier, fuller, powerful, and complete if you can understand and drop your hatred for men.
Fantastic article Mr Allman:)
I think Lori actually makes a valid point here Alex. In my experience I have had many scenarios in which I was just really horny and wanted sex – nothing wrong in that. However, I have had to turn a woman on emotionally quite a bit to get the sex I desired. At times this has made things complicated as I either left the woman feeling short-changed, or I ended up in a relationship I never wanted to be in to begin with aside from the sexual aspect. I absolutely never wanted to hurt anyone but if I had simply said to a woman ‘I’m horny – would you like to have recreational sex with me?’, I doubt I would have ended up having the great sexual experiences that I had. I have seen this pattern repeated many times in my social circle. It’s a very fine skill to manage a woman’s emotions so that she feels good about the sex without getting so emotionally involved that it is painful if for her if things don’t progress beyond sex and a little bit of friendship. It can be done and I think more coaches should focus more on managing women in a respectful and positive way even if you have no desire for a deep long lasting relationship with them.
I totally agree that men can form a deep loving bond with a woman he appreciates on many levels- I know that is true and have experienced it myself. The thing is though that is NOT AT ALL NECESSARY for most men to experience much emotional connection to enjoy having sex with a woman – in my experience it is necessary for a woman to experience emotional stimulation of some kind be it drama/laughter/admiration/connection etc before sex…..
I think the evidence suggests that men and women really are wired a little differently. If you want to see how men behave when the limiting factor on sex is based purely on men then look at the gay community – in my conversations with gay men I have heard many times about how easy it is to have sex – they have actually commented that life as a straight man must be a lot harder – simply because you are attracted to women who require more emotional stimulation and connection before having sex.
You may enjoy their company, their warmth and beauty, but if they weren’t members of the opposite sex and you didn’t desire them SEXUALLY you absolutely wouldn’t be spending the same amount of time and energy on the woman. Similarly if a man does not know how to make a woman ‘FEEL’ good emotionally then he will rarely sleep with her. It was only when I learnt how to make women actually feel real emotion as that I started getting the sex that I wanted. Pick up literature helped me and many other men considerably in this so I don’t think it should all be dismissed. Thanks to learning more about how to make women feel good and attracted I have FAR less resentment than before when I just didn’t get women at all and never seemed to get into good situations with them despite the desire I felt. I actually think if every man went through a ‘flirting, seducing and managing emotions’ class at school there would be less rape, less violence against women and many many more happy men and women.
Hey JP, I appreciate your take on this, and I know a lot of men would absolutely agree with you.
The problem is that the lens is narrow so you are not seeing the big picture.
It SEEMS like PUA stuff works, but the fact is, probably 1 in 4 women out in a club on the weekend are open to casual sex and would have been game without any of the PUA stuff that you thought was what was working.
When it comes to sex, some women want a man who gives them emotional signals and intimacy, and some are repelled by that because they don’t want anything complicated and guys who come on like they want to “get to know them” first might be clingy in the morning.
I have always found that being direct about being horny and wanting casual sex worked as well or as trying to build emotional connection first… just on different women. The HUGE DIFFERENCE being… telling the truth, being authentic, and not trying to deceive someone else to get what I wanted.
When I was single and “sowing my oats” I ALWAYS told women that I had other women in my life BEFORE they went to bed with me. It was very rarely an issue.
It’s a great debate anyway……I’m just providing my perspective and experiences…..Others will have had different experiences to me.
When I mention the so-called PUA literature I’m really only talking about the material that has been taught in the last 2/3 years. The original Neil Strauss ‘Game’ type stuff did involve manipulating women and building false connection in order to sleep with a woman. I tried that stuff for a couple of months and it just felt too strange and wasn’t even that effective so I just went back to relating to women as I always had done and that wasn’t that effective either to be honest. The material that coaches like Jesse Charger, Jason Capital and Christian Hudson teach isn’t at all about deceit- it’s about relating to women in an attractive, charming way and making them feel a sense of fun and excitement – this is what I really mean when I mentioned the EMOTIONS that many women need to have sparked in them in order to feel attraction. By gaining an understanding of this material and applying it in my own life I have vastly improved my relationships and overall satisfaction with women. The women are more than happy that I can actually relate to them in an attractive way too. I feel like recent material gives you direction and mindsets to channel your inner male force in a way that is powerful and effective. This recent material has also made me a more socially aware, charming, powerful and playful man in general – all qualities that I would have liked to develop in myself regardless of meeting women.
I completely agree with you JP. I’m good friends with Jason Capital and Christian Hudson is like a brother to me.
But Jason still teaches men to maintain their social value by never allowing that a woman is your equal (an important crutch for some men, but as an end-game can never result in a fully realized relationship), and Christian’s sales copy still begins with some stuff about how, “if you’re a woman watching this is going to piss you off,” or something like that… why? Because it sells, because men want to hear that, because it speaks to that inner frustration.
Jason and especially Christian have excellent programs.
No doubt that male frustration and resentment towards women motivates a lot of men to get better at dealing with women. I know that in my case I have far less of this anger and resentment than I have ever had previously – mainly due to my improved understanding of women and having much more success with women these last few years……
That idea of not allowing that a woman is your equal is a strange one….I think there are two sides to it…….I know that many women have said to me that they do like to ‘look up’ to a man in some way……..which would imply he has qualities that are superior to her own…..I think this is one of the reasons that young women tend to prefer guys 3-5 years older than them……
Then on the other hand I have experienced that in my own relationships some of the women I have been with have actually told me outright that they love the fact I talk to them as an equal and genuinely value what they say………They actually have told me that they have been with other guys who don’t do that and it pissed them off…..
In a good relationship men and women admire each other. Of course she wants to look up to you… perhaps for your courage, your willingness to sacrifice for your friends, your patience, your amazing ability to give her pleasure in bed!
And, of course, you want to look up to her… perhaps for her compassion, her wisdom, her ease in calming your mind and understanding what’s true and important in life…
You don’t have to put yourself below somebody else in value in order to admire them.
Yes very good and to the point.
You have a very valid point in everything you say I mean I know I have that rage in me I just never used it like Elliot did thank god it did frustrate me though on many levels women can be evil and I’m a witness to it on many occasions let me tell you and it broke my heart
I feel your pain Dean. I’ve been on the receiving end of it too, of course. The frustration is incredibly deep. AND… every woman could write the same words about men: “MEN can be evil and I’m a witness to it on many occassions, let me tell you, and it broke my heart.”
Good points. I sometimes think that there is a hierarchy and it is easier to hate someone who is “weaker” than to deal with your emotions. Divide and conquer; PUA community, non-PUA community, it is very effective.
Well, this is actually the most mature look at male feelings toward women I’ve ever seen. When I see people bring up “Men hate Women” it’s usually for one of two purposes: it’s either to guilt men into changing their minds about a given topic, or it’s just a reason to complain about something that they just don’t like.
You, however, have turned this idea on its head and actually started pointing out legitimate reasons for why things like this exist. I applaud your effort and look forward to your next report.
This article is great but it falls short in one way.
You keep saying that immature men “see women as the obstacle to the vagina.” You didn’t write that there are other “treasures” men want to get from women as well, such as status, self-validation, romance, feminine charms, and probably a dozen other things that I can’t even think of right now.
And of course, how important each of these things are relative to each other is dependent on the guy in question.
Of course, I’m guessing you already know what I’m saying, but didn’t elaborate in order to be more concise. It’s more short and punchy to say “men are seeing women as the obstacle to the vagina,” than it is to say “men are seeing women as the obstacle to many things that they desire, chief among them being the vagina.”
Thanks Kevin, and of course, you’re right.
Getting the pretty girl in school is the fast track to status and self-validation and both are powerful human needs along Maslowe’s Hierarchy…
The thing with that powerful, mind-dizzying urge of sex is that it’s all the way at the bottom of the pyramid along with fear of death. It’s deep in the brain stem. And you can probably remember that feeling in Junior High when girls would walk by in their tight jeans and your frustrated desire to have them nearly drove you mad…
It’s hard to not begin to develop an adversarial relationship with the humans that are the decision-makers about you getting what you want.
It takes enormous growth and maturity and experience with your authentic desires and authentic relating to bury that anger beneath understanding, and more still to look at it in the light of shameless acceptance.
Thanks for raising this topic in a thoughtful way. I agree that much misogyny is borne of sexual frustration.
I recommend restoring honor to the goddess. A 300 lb rugby playing, he – man hunter, war vet, American Indian friend of mine was taught from a very early age to honor the feminine and gets angry when he hears his male friends diss women and promptly corrects them. He stands up at the kitchen table whenever his wife sits down,,,and is no less a man for doing it. And he has fulfilling relationships with women.
You can’t simply say restore the honor of the goddess because that puts everything back on the man, it has to go both ways. If a woman simply thinks she deserves to be adored like a goddess by men thats self entitlement and will never work.
If you want to be treated like a goddess you sure as hell better treat men like gods. Some women don’t deserve to treated like a goddess, the same way some men don’t deserve to be treated like gods.
Don’t outsource the blame and say it’s someone else’s fault, it’s easy for men & women to blame each other but you have to take a look at yourself first(this goes for both sexes) and realise how you act towards & how you make the opposite sex feel. Be completely honest with yourself about this and from there you can start working on yourself.
Both sexes can abuse and scar the other sex I’m sure you know of some men that treat women like dirt but if your honest you know women that treat men like shit aswel.
I use to be friends with guy’s(use to been the keywords) that would straight out say and try anything to girls just to have sex with them and then toss them aside, leaving them feeling used.
I also know girls that emotional abuse and use guys to get what they want, knowing that they have the guy wrapped around their little finger.
In both of these situations once the victim realise’s what they let happen to themselves they usually get very cold towards the opposite sex and end up hurting other people they come into contact with as a result & so the cycle continues.
You ultimately have the power to decide who is worth your time and effort building relationships with. This goes for who your friends are aswel because if you have friends that treat the opposite sex badly or talks bad about them chances are they also don’t treat members of the same sex to good aswel and might not be there for you when your going through a rough patch. Plus there hatred of the opposite sex wil more than likely rub of on you at some level.
As far as this notion of all men have some hate for all women I honestly don’t feel this is true. Yes of course I hate the way some women treat guys and if a new woman I meet act’s in a way that reminds me of what I’ve seen them other women do I simply don’t get involved with her. But this also works for guys aswel, if I meet a guy that acts the same as some asshole I know I simply don’t bother befriending him.
But hey i’m only 22 give me some time and maybe I will end up hating women eventually!!
Well said Daz, you saved me the time of writing much the same thoughts.
We have inherited an adversarial model of gender relating, and it needs to be said relationships are evolving much faster than we can keep up with. (sorry about the bad English there, easiest way to say it).
There’s a shared humanity and a commitment to quality and kindness in how we all behave that will drive our results more than any techniques. This isn’t gender specific, and I look forward to your next post Alex.
Daz I’m impressed in your wisdom for your age; I’m sorry if that sounds condescending, not meant that way. Many people much older than you are still running on reaction not choice.
When we take on the remarkable value in learning how the other gender works, and put in the effort and heart to relate in a way that works for both genders, as Alex and other quality teachers are showing us, we will be happier and also ‘get’ more of what we want and need.
While none of this is gender specific, it does need to be acknowledged that the traditionally feminine values of love, relating, what works for everyone, softness, kindness, are still junked by the culture at large in favor of competition, profit, elitism, and power games. We all have much to learn here.
I agree that it is important to take your soul and your thoughts out into the light and assess them from time to time, but absent honest feedback on the experiments, it becomes incredibly difficult to make the kinds of changes that really do increase your chances of establishing and maintaining meaningful relationships with members of the opposite sex. I submit to any ladies reading this that it’s difficult for them to do with men as well, lacking insightful feedback from us knuckle-dragging males.
If I could have one wish, it would be that every man on the planet could have social, if not physical, access to at least one heterosexual woman (preferably as many as possible) who the male could trust to provide gentle, honest and utterly non-judgemental insight not only into “women’s minds” but the male’s own behavior, so that he has a viable clue about what he’s doing wrong _and_ what he’s doing right. And vice-versa for the ladies, to keep it balanced.
Relying on one’s ignorant-but-cool-talking peers to assess one’s behavior with respect to the opposite sex is just about the surest recipe for disaster that I can imagine.
re;men,women & our anger, always cutting edge,& spot on alex~thanks! its’ true whether latent, buried,simmering-up w/a cherry on top,..ah..yeah!? we are angry w/our women our mates from 1degree to another(leving santa Barbara<ironic!?on the shelf 4 min.)I'm not particularly 'proud'2 admit it,but I know its' there,no matter how much 'I've evolved' still I have a wayz 2go((the sic irony 4 me is I'm a man who really loves women,(as u pointed out) I was taught well,growing up w/ my mother & 4 sisters,++ 4 me the anger I've felt,feel is preportional 2 the love & things I love so much about them!!))y'know? in other words;I see so much 'value' in them when they 'dis' me or invalidate my appreciation,or w/hold thier charms!!))it can really make me nuts!! I know its' child ish & immature,& still,….such it is being human,I really am wrking on it,thanks 2 guys like you~ for what its' worth'sin)cerely,Dave R. B-town Vt.
I think that to love another you must first love yourself….maybe this latent rage is an expression of self-image.
That’s good stuff Bob. It’s my current perspective that they happen simultaneously, and in my experience working with couples, I find it’s easier to learn to love someone else and use that as a vehicle to learn your self.
Just as we will never be perfect as humans, you will never get to complete self-acceptance and love… it is a practice, not a destination.
Yes he was a disturbed individual but there is definitely a rage toward women inside all men. I read another article talking about the killer and how he was what they call love-shy or incel(involuntarily celebrate). There apparently whole forums and messages boards where they rage against women.
i agree with your assertion that most men never fall in love with the woman only her ability to sexually satisfy him. They treat and think of women as objects or property, not even human. In many cultures women are just seen as breeders and their wants and needs are never even considered.
I admit I have this anger that at 45 I’m unmarried and single, but I also accept that it is partly my responsibility and not someone else fault. I never displayed the ambition or confidence that women find attractive. I’m always the nice guy friend zone guy. When I mention this to my lady friends they get mad and say its not true which is even more infuriating. Also when they complain to you about their significant other you ask what attracted them in the first place and why they still are with them…while Me the great guy is still single. The hard truth is I’m not sexually attractive to them and I haven’t found a way to reverse that opinion.
great article, hope it generates many comments.
A couple of important things for you Dave:
1) Most men DO fall in love with women and not just their ability to sexually satisfy them. It’s important that you understand that. It’s just that they ALSO contain a deep-down anger for women that is born of early rejection and is fueled by the insecurity that she some day might leave him (reject him, as he felt rejected in the past).
2) If you change “accept that it’s party my responsibility” to taking full responsibility, your life will change so quickly and powerfully that it will shock you.
Taking full responsibility is powerful, masculine, attractive, AND leads towards self-acceptance and confidence. Women will notice.
3) When you ask them why, as a nice guy, you are in the friend zone, you are subtly communicating that it’s their fault, and not your responsibility… after all, you’re being nice. Of course they get mad…
DAVE: They are mad because a nice guy like you is not being masculine in a way that attracts them, but is instead not taking responsibility. They are rooting for you. They are practically begging you to step into your self as a man, take responsibility, love yourself for who you are (with women or without them), so that they can respect and admire you as much as they like you.
At that point you will find women are suddenly sexually attractive to you.
Dave, I agree with you. I am not physically attractive to women and I am always in the friend zone even if I relate to them on a emotional level. This is what pisses me off. Women say they want a emotional sensitive guy before they will be physically involved. This is only partially true with the women I have met. They can not get past that I am a large man around the waistline. So to them there is it also a hot specimen of a man after the emotional connection. Women that I have met and know look for more perfection in a man, than a man is looking in a woman. As a obese man that women like to have as a friend and not for anything else is heart breaking. Obese women have a better chance to being with a thin man, than a obese man being with a thin woman. If there are women on here that have not been able to find perfection in a man, you will not. It is a huge double standard in society. Women have the power over men. The vagina is a powerful carrot for men to chase after. For Women it seems in the ones I have met can care less about a penis. Their satisfaction, orgasm comes mentally through emotional connection which they can easily find in a close friendship in either a man or woman.
Hey Jim, it’s NOT EASY being obese… or very short, or physically disabled, or any number of other challenges that make us all human…
BUT, if you start using it as your excuse for why things don’t work in your life you are reversing the cause and effect. Being obese doesn’t mean you can’t get women… fearing you can’t get women because of your obesity is the reason you can’t get women.
I know tons of women that found James Gandolfini extremely sexy… in fact, I knew a beautiful girl that used to date him. I have another close friend who is hugely obese, and while I sure wish I could help him regain his health, he certainly has not a problem finding his share of wonderful and beautiful girlfriends.
Is it a challenge? Is it harder? Yes, it is. Are there women that won’t date a man who is overweight? Yep. There are also men that won’t date women that are overweight, there are women that won’t date black men, women that won’t date white men, and women that won’t date men with hair on their backs (and women that love each of those things).
It’s on you if your particular challenge defeats you.
It is an excellent obeservation that many men hate women though they will be shocked to acknowledge it, even deny it, because they really feel they love women. One source of this misogyny in many men (and women pick it up whether they realise it or not… they may say: “I am afraid of you!” “What, afraid of me?” you respond shocked. A woman who is afraid can not be loved by the man she is afraid of. We probabaly are shocked and bewildered. We do not understand. And we probabaly are sincere.) is FREEMASONRY in the ancestry! We may not even be aware that any of our forefathers was involved in freemasonry. Yet, the misogyny is passed down the family line. The Bible calls this “unrighteousness.” To be free from this requires repentance, forgiveness, reconciliation with God, cleasing with the blood of Christ and folling Him as His child and disciple a our God! Then we need to repent for the sins of our ancestors that he was involved in freemasonry (you do this by faith and receive God’s forgiveness by faith…but the holy Spirit may lead us to be more specific to really get free). And then finally when all legal grounds of satan have been taken, we need to command the demon, the spirit of misogyny to get out from us and go to the place God appoints, never to return. This is spiritual warfare and you need a good Biblebelieving church which moves in the gifts of the Spirit, like healing, deliverence of demons, miracles etc. This is – by the way – the same ‘procedure’ to follow to be freed from any demo (they usually have names according to their operation- like homosexuality!) It is impossible to have total lasting victory – over misogyny or homosexuality or fornication, or adultery, or lying or… when the demon who empowered that sinful behavior in us, is not cast out! But ONLY beievers in Christ have this authority! (Mark 16: 16-18) Many homosexuals may have repented and really meant it and be forgiven etc. only to fall back into sin… because the church did NOT cast out the homosexual demon(s) out of him (plus did the complete deliverence which takes too long to explain here). Many ignorant churhes, evangelists, churches have made things worse for many homosexuals and other sinners by NOT delivering them from their demons. Jesus taught in the Bible that the house (the person may be cleaned up but the demons comes back and takes with him seven demons worse than him …if we do not fill up our house – with the holy Spirit!) In the end the person may be worse off. Due to inadequate care by the church! This is really a grave matter indeed! Okay, I do not mean to sound like I am using this platform to preach the Gospel, though I do NOT apologize for it, as it is the ONLY way to overcome this problem and have a happy relationship with a woman! Until then women will always be afraid of us, deep inside and may not know why. This thing will ALWAYS show up sooner or later …and then it may even be the end… which is a shame for both the man and the woman. Of course not all misogynists have freemasonry in their ancestry, though it may! I don’t know. May be we had a dominant, complaining, selfish, abusive mother (I did) and have developped misogyny inwardly, though at the same time desiring the love of a woman which we have been denied so much by our own mother?! Hope this helps, you guys!
Thanks for every thing you do for the men Alex.!! Another thought full and insite full post. Keep up the great work. Wes
I do believe the problem rest with religion (doctrines and commandments of men)( Don’t smoke, don’t drink, don’t dance, don’t have any fun). This quote is one of my favorites Ephesians chapter 5, verse 25 I believe goes something like this,”husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church,”if you think about it in a certain way, it was the church that killed him, that’s what most husbands think their wives are trying to do too them. Then it tells the wives to respect their husbands, didn’t say anything about loving them! I do believe these two different attitudes affects many marriages.
What is the difference between a wife in a concubine? Which one is more righteous? Whenever I ask a girl these questions she is under the impression I am asking her if she is a prostitute, insulted. In real life, a wife is for breeding and a concubine is for pleasure. It’s the difference between a contract and a covenant, a contract is temporary, whereas a covenant is lifelong, once you open up somebody’s womb. They are always going to be the mommy, you’re always going to be the daddy, whether you like it or not or wanted or not. That’s the way it is going to be. As far as righteousness goes, they are both equal, slave or master, bond or free. Whereas the church has made sex the big ugly, few people go through the act without somebody getting hurt, most specific emotionally.
Did you know that mother Mary had sex? Adam knew his wife Eve and she conceived and bare Cain, Adam knew his wife Eve and she conceived and bare Able. God does not use his words haphazardly. It’s not going to be apple today and an orange tomorrow, so to know somebody would mean sexual intercourse with conception, else, it would be sporting with your wife. So, when the angel came down and talked to Joseph and told him,”Fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost,” and he knew her not until she had her first born. You see he could not impregnate her because she was already pregnant !(does not mean that they did not have sex) Pregnant people have sex all the time, her firstborn, God’s only begotten Son. Joseph knew that Jesus Christ was the son of God because he probably saw the blood when he popped Mary’s hymen.
In his service,
Alex, I’m 72, have good strong erections, that last, but have a difficult time ejaculating. Feels like I have orgasmic streaming, but without that final release. What do you know about this? Literature seems to address erection problems only. Thanks, Giles
Shit Giles what the hell are you complaining about consider yourself lucky
It resonates that we live in an instant gratification society a remote control add economy.So it stands to reason that being like that with woman especially with the more juvenile set goes hand in hand with societies moores.However real love not to be confused with self love comes from accepting and being comfortable with your inadequacies embracing your deficiencies and than being able to laugh at the inconsistencies and messiness of life and find and cherish a partner and all the memories that you can than comfortably create with long sustaining love and mutual admiration and respect
We hear more about male hate for women because men have built in competitive natures, testosterone – hormones. Its a biological thing and manifests in physical/ sexual violence. I have recently heard more about sexual violence in India which hurt me emotionally and had me deeply wondering why. India is the capital (in my opinion) of divine feminine worship. Temples exist for the sole purpose of worshipping the vulva and vagina – the sexual nature of women. For men who desire self control, the female body is the ultimate “thing” that has the power to completely derail his power over himself. This is an affront, especially for men with big egos. Most men are not taught how to love women sexually either. They are taught how to have meaningless, disrespectful sex with women they have no love for (through porn). Until sex education aims at showing love in sex, male hate towards women will continue to hurt this planet.
Yes, many Westerners (myself included) picked up a lot of “cosmic” ideas that originated in India, such as karma, tantric sex and “awakening the Kundalini”. The trouble is that we are getting the “distilled essence” of the ideas without the thousands of years’ worth of cultural baggage attached. A Catholic Christian may be able to recite any number of Latin hymns, but may suffer serious emotional resistance to returning to the faith if it was beaten into him or her in such a way that he or she associates following that faith (and the ideas of loving one’s neighbor as oneself, etc.) with emotional abuse.
One possible root of misogyny in India is the story of how Buddha achieved enlightenment: he stayed in meditation until he achieved Enlightenment, despite the temptations offered by the “most beautiful daughters of Yama, the God of Death”. When the fundamental image of one’s faith depicts females as either temptations to be ignored or a handy external excuse as to why a male’s life is in ruins, the violence against women takes on a much more understandable, if far from excusable, light. Come to think of it, that theme’s pretty common in a LOT of religions.
I guess the trick is, as Our Hero points out, to acknowledge our own weakness and to humbly request assistance from the ladies, while offering what insight and assistance and safety we may in return.
Really balanced perspective man, I like it
When I first watched that video of Elliot, I felt his pain.
Even though I didn’t feel any desire to ‘destroy’ (seems to be the polar ends of masculinity? Self Destruction and self development?) I really felt his loneliness and frustration – because I’ve experienced so much of that.
I like this article because I’m sick of all the polarising articles. All the writing on ‘men, this is what women have to put up with’ etc etc – because of the constant blame game on one or the other
From how I see it, being lonely is just fucking painful, and guys who treat girls like objects – as disgusting as it can be – are also probably lonely, hurting and messed up in the head.
This isn’t an excuse for destructive and tramatising behaviour at all, but I think if there was (somehow..) more understanding on both sides – on what women ‘have to put up with’ and the pain men feel over feeling ignored, stuck and forever lonely, then there could be some big shifts.
Unfortunately women who get groped all the time don’t want to hear that men are lonely and hurting (because why would i care about that jackass who tried to rape my friend?!?) and fair enough. – and men who are lonely and frustrated don’t want to hear that women have to ‘deal with’ guys hitting on them, forcing themselves on them etc (“because how is it a problem that you can have sex with all these guys when I’ve been alone for the last 3 years?!”)
Guess it might take a “pre-emptive empathy strike” – one “side” will have to get compassion for the other first so that it can start a feed-forward loop that inspires both sides
Love your writing man, it’s had a big impact on me over the past years.
Thank you Dan. You deeply, profoundly get this. The only way off the hamster wheel is to notice we’re on a hamster wheel.
I know this wasn’t the intent, but as a messy human (woman) being, I have to admit that this post made me more afraid of men. Significantly more. Having compassion and understanding for someone’s buried wounds — because heaven knows I’ve got my own — is wonderful, and deeply needed in this world, and I’m grateful to you, Alex, for furthering this understanding. How, then, does a woman respond to the idea that rage against her, for something she herself may not be directly responsible for, simmers under the surface of every man she sees in her daily life — even the ones who also love her? I know you weren’t trying to make the world seem like a more dangerous place; please drop a line to help those of us who are viewing it this way to shift to seeing it the way you DID mean…
Hey Cat, have you ever felt rage against someone who cut you off in traffic? Or maybe it was a man who cheated on you, or a popular girl who humiliated you in front of friends at school?
Did you try to kill them?
Probably not. And you should understand that there is giant river of difference between Elliot Rodgers, an unbalanced and violent individual, and other men. Criminals are criminals, and a certain amount of fear of criminals leads to precautions and thoughtful arrangement of our lives so as not to be victimized.
Anger and violence are not the same thing.
You have every right to expect your romantic relationships to men to be free from violence. But if you think your romantic relationships with men will be free from anger then you are living in a fantasy world.
Humans get angry.
Understanding the root sources of men’s anger gives you control, power, compassion, and the ability to be more effective in working together to unwire old wounds (in both of you), deal more effectively with anger (in both of you), and reach deeper understanding and acceptance of your shared humanity.
Nothing could be further from scary.
Hi Cat, I am feeling more scared of men too. I was hoping that most men did not hate us. But that was delusional. So many women are raped, beaten up and otherwise abused. It is an epidemic. Did porno give men the idea that they have a right to use our bodies. It used to be that men respected women that said no. Now they think they have been cheated if a woman says no. Marie
Marie, this is a difficult and thorny issue for us humans.
The fact is, men are bigger, stronger, and more aggressive, and sex crimes happen. I think that pretending they don’t can lead women to not take common sense precautions that I wish they didn’t have to take. Being the only girl left at the fraternity party late at night with a bunch of drunk young men in an isolated room probably is unwise… even though I’m sure 90% of the time it’s completely safe.
Most men also LOVE women, and most men have a strong urge to protect women, and many men would stand and defend a woman from attack, even if he knew he would be hurt, and even if he didn’t know the woman.
The world is dangerous place and absolutely none of us get out unharmed, and all of us will be killed by something. It’s easy to regard that and live in fear. But it’s also a waste of your life.
Fearing men is like fearing the ultimate end of your life. It’s a road to unhappiness with the short time we have been blessed to experience in this world.
Loving men is the best option for you… AND taking the time to understand and appreciate why they are so completely imperfect.
Good luck Alex. This is going to open up a rather LARGE can of worms. There’s a dozen things off the top of my head that come to mind instantly.
But the biggest thing I see is EVERYTHING is our fault. Everything. They blame us for every little thing that goes wrong in life and of course the relationship. They can be out banging the next door neighbor and sure enough its our fault. AND it probably is because we didn’t do something right. We weren’t perfect. The responsiblity dodge.
Otherwise its not too bad. They talk too much, have all this drama and trivia that’s much more important than anything you might be concerned with at the time. But that’s okay, we can handle that.
I don’t hate women but I sure am scared of them now. I love you, doesn’t mean I love you. It means I’ll get you hooked on my physical attributes so when I do dump you all you’ll think about is me with some other guy that’s now enjoying all the physical attributes you’re hooked on.
But we can handle that, we’re tough.
So once grown up a bit I don’t think its hate I think its fear. They want us to be men and take charge and that’s okay but not too far – that’s abuse and even rape. Who draws that line??? They do.
On and on it goes – the battle of the sexes. So far they’re winning hands down. I sure don’t have the answers and you seem to have some really good ideas. Good fundamental stuff.
I got back in the game last Summer for a while. Out of it by September. Tried again this past January. Nope, I’m just not interested anymore.
I know, I know, it must be me. I’m attracting the wrong type of women. There ya go. Its all my fault.
I love women, I really do. I view them as angels on earth, but I sure am scared of them now. No hate there, if anything too much love…
I don’t hate women I just don’t want to be around them anymore.
Hey Ken, let me tell you my friend, that AS I WAS WRITING THIS POST, I was thinking about what Ken was going to say.
I welcome the can of worms my friend. I live for the worms. The worms are the opportunities to get through to people and help them live more fulfilled lives.
So, here’s my sage words for you Ken… same as always of course, but I know that some day I will get through to you.
See the sentence up at the top of your comment: “The blame us for every little thing that…”?
Okay, now read the rest and observe yourself blaming THEM for every little thing.
Sit with it. It will come to you.
Thanks for the reply Alex. I get it but don’t get it at the same time. It IS a two way street. All I’m saying is they should own up to having at least a little bit of responsibility in the relationship. Just a little PLEASE…They sure did before we married them.
If it were just me going through all this I would accept that responsibility and your critizism. But I hear it from just about all the guys. Single (divorced), and the married guys. Its always the same story. Their mates just aren’t interested in them anymore. Guys in their 40’s & 50’s, successful businessmen, loving husbands and fathers and the wife just ain’t there. Its really very very frustrating. And WE don’t know what to do about that.
They don’t seem to want “the connection” anymore. We thought we were doing it right. Providing for the family, working hard, building homes, raising kids. It was a lot of fun but now when its time to slow down a little bit in life where’s the wife? Gone, and we don’t know where. We didn’t even know there was a problem. As before the kicker is they blame us.
So I don’t know, maybe you’re right. For sure we’re all doing something wrong. Maybe loving them too much. My wife was my Angel. I even got a car seat cover for her sports car with Angel imprinted on it.
So yeah, I took a close hard look at THEM. I didn’t like what I saw. Not my opinion but observing their behavior. And I put a bit of study into it too. My question was “How can I get my wife to be interested in me again”. That’s why I signed up for your newsletter trying to figure out why she left.
Me, Chris and Steve are single now. Al and Randy stayed with their wives and have accepted the “no connection” thing. MIke built a cabin up North and spends most of his time up there. Bruce bought his wife a condo at the lakeshore, he still lives here in the city.
I’ve been through it, as all these other guys have and I’ve been around long enough to see many, many other guys who didn’t deserve to get shafted like they have. Good men, honest, hard working, faithful, loving, family men.
The responsibility lies somewhere. We did the best we could and knew how to do and it wasn’t good enough. They left anyway.
Well, what do you do when you do everything you possibly know how to do right and it still doesn’t work?
I don’t have those answers Alex, I was hoping you did.
Hey Ken, let me try this:
You are surely aware that there are thousands of women out there that could have written the same thing about men? That their friends Shirley, Jane, and Sarah are single now, Jenny and Amanda are living without intimacy (all he does is jerk off to porn), and Melissa, Suzy, and Brooke have all been cheated on by a man who swore to them that they were soul mates…
It’s hard to be a human my friend. Thinking that this is a Male or Female thing is where you are off.
Good point. Most of my practice is males. Construction workers, athletes, engineers, farmers, etc. Apparently I just don’t get exposed to the other side of the coin.
Either way the damage has been done and I don’t know what to do about that. I’ve tried a couple times to get back in the game but I go into panic mode and flee (so do Chris and Steve). Of course that means the women probably do the same thing after they’ve been through it. Damaged goods.
I’ve done a lot of research on how to break through that but so far its a no-go. You and Scott McKay give the best advice.
So how do you get through that? To me, and probably the women too, love equals rejection and heartbreak. I certainly didn’t start out that way. I always “believed” in love. Especially being a veteran and fighting for it. But it hasn’t worked in my life and its like I wasted an awful lot of years/decades on that love road only to find there’s nothing here at the end of it.
Maybe its too late for me. Here I sit on another Saturday night writing to you. I’d much rather be out having some fun with that special someone, but apparently she doesn’t exist.
Anyway, Thanks for all you do Alex and thanks for responding to these posts.
It certainly ain’t easy Ken.
If your son got knocked off a horse, you’d want him to get back up on there… but also, you could not look him in the eye and promise him it wouldn’t happen again. Horses are animals, they are never going to be perfectly predictable. Another horse may throw him off some day.
Humans are imperfect and the only way to win at the love game is to be un-disappointable by that fact.
We tend to idealize our lovers and imagine they will never hurt us. That is not the case. Being hurt is part of the game. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t play.
Wow so grateful to find someone shining truth into this difficult and touchy subject. It has come up in conversation w men and women in my life recently and has left me and it seems them quite confused. I’m 24 and have found so much of my pain and anger (self and other directed) can be attributed to the difficulty in dealing w sex drive and having authentic connections w women. Women are certainly not to blame but the thorny feelings the situation engenders are real and can feel crippling at times. Thanks for writing this piece.
Right on. Truly not their fault Jordan. In fact, I’m sure many women would have gladly been born without the vagina to avoid being blamed for withholding it.
Haha yep Alex, that’s about right! If I were born a man 99% of my problems would be solved. Of course, I’d get a bunch more, but I can handle THOSE problems MUCH easier. As it is, men are both the problem and the solution to much of the garbage that comes my way just for having a vagina (& an attractive package it’s nested in). Fortunately, I’m friends with enough good ones to stop me from being a misandrist. Just…
Sadly too many men are not friends with enough good women to avoid being misogynists.
But there is this other piece too: Virtually every man I know is a good man, virtually every woman I know is a good woman. Why is it that so many people have the opposite experience?
My theory is that it is not only who we attract into our lives, but also the qualities we elicit from others.
Excellent points. I especially like that you point out that we are messy, complex, and each have our own history. That results in differing levels of awareness and differing triggers, etc. The approach of trying to make everything okay by solving for the least common denominator works poorly. It is okay to have so-called “negative” emotions like anger, hatred (truly on a continuum of love, the opposite of love being apathy, not a new concept), insecurity, and all those other things that we mistakenly perceive that the well-adjusted, sane, caring person “shouldn’t” possess. Yin-Yang, anima-animus, you name it, there is a balance but that means that all components exist. It is how we cope with them and remain conscious of them that make the difference. Your attention grabbing subject lines and glaring honesty is appreciated. Hopefully it will cut through the motivated reasoning and Dunning-Kruger effect that run rampant these days.
Do you have any children that are young men? I do and what I see them go through is painful. Misogyny isn’t an innate condition, it is a irrational learned response. Much like the mechanism as Pavlov’s dog. If I was wiser when I was a bit younger I would have suggested they become Priests or tell them to get great hobby and wait till these wonderous girls go up.
I’d love to put you together with a reader who has a daughter. What they go through is also heart-breakingly painful.
Couldn’t agree more, I know I have that anger and hurt deep down inside but knowing that and being aware of it helps me to become even more of a loving man. Thanks Alex
While many men might disagree with what you’ve written here, I do think you’re right. And I’m a man who deeply loves my wife and has many good friendships with women, and all that good stuff.
I think part of it is simply the cats-and-dogs rivalry that men and women share: we are similar, and yet different enough that we each continually get on the others’ nerves. But I think there’s also far more to it than that.
More than anything, we men crave acceptance and affirmation from the significant women in our lives…and 98% of women just don’t get it. I truly think that most women don’t understand how deep those wounds of rejection can go. I know my wife loves me, and yet I also know that she doesn’t have a clue how scarring to me was her cold sexuality in the first years of our marriage. On one level, it’s almost as if she had an affair–those scars are that bad. Here’s the thing: when things are ROCKIN’ in the bedroom, any feelings of anger or bitterness tend to just evaporate, because I’m getting what I’ve always longed for. And it’s not just great sex…it’s deep, whole-body intimacy. Such a thing is life-giving, and tremendously important for a marriage (at least from the man’s perspective). But when things start to get cold or distant or formulaic, it’s so easy for those negative feelings to rise up again. And that leads to the next thing….
I think part of it also stems from the fact that so many men are addicted to porn, which is very misogynistic in nature, and which has been shown to change brain pathways. It only takes half a brain-cell to recognize that regularly viewing media that holds up a cheap (and sexual-receptacle-only) view of women goes a long way toward feeding this secret hatred of women, and also keeping men in the adolescent sexuality that you describe. We think, “If only more women could be like these women…and not just with how they look, but more importantly, how they act….” And so, when we meet a woman who isn’t interested in us, or who won’t drop her clothes at “Hello,” we become angry and resentful, because she’s not like the “ideal” woman whom we’ve come to expect via porn. We feel entitled to more, and yet by holding these views, we are making ourselves worthy of less. It’s a vicious cycle, and frankly, we’ve brought it on ourselves.
I’m sure there’s more involved in this discussion, but these are my thoughts. I can’t wait for your next article, about how women carry rage against men too. I’d love to see how the other side really thinks.
Nice alex, I had never given this much consideration. But it really makes sense and I think by addressing it we can become better men.
The rage against women is largely due to the inherent hassle involved in
living with them. Most men tend to be fairly logical and problem solving
in their thinking. Women, with some exceptions, tend to interpret everything
as filled with emotional content. They want men to feel their issues, not fix them.
Men want to fix it and move on. No such luck.
Frustration on both sides. Women are not raised in the tradition of honor
and restraint in their behavior. So, they fight dirty, with words and emotional
punishment. Most men are softer inside than their usual public armor.
So, if they care about their women, the words hurt.
Real men don’t beat their women as a outlet for frustration.
Emotional argument is frequently irrational,
so men have a difficult time presenting their side and reaching
a mutually satisfying resolution.
So, the frustration is turned inward. Without a satisfactory outlet.
Rage against women results.
When relationships become more adversarial over time, rage increases
as men feel they are getting less and less satisfaction than they feel they should.
Rage becomes endemic.
Joking about it with other men is a relatively safe outlet, although it does sound
misogynistic to someone not in on the gallows humor of it. It makes men feel less
alone with the issue, and reinforces the notion that they are not really bad guys.
That conflict with women is the norm, not the exception or just their rotten luck.
My 2 cents from a senior married 38 years.
I believe it is worse than just some dating coaches. I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s/ The age of men bashing and treating men like the trash they are suppose to take out. Growing up from a parental divorce at 10yo and in the culture of the NOW movement has had a negative effect on me and many other men. Hollywood has had no problem pushing this too. I grew up not being able to hold a conversation with a woman and scared to death to ask a woman out. I also believe that is why porn became so popular for men and still is to this day. We can fantasize having sex with the woman we were to scared to ask out because we knew we were going to get rejected.
There is no rejection with porn, because of our looks or body size. That model accepts us the way we are. The problem we never grow up complete sexually, being able to communicate with a real woman that has real feelings, touch and body not to mention they talk. haha.
I was rejected 99.9% of time since I was a kid. I am not just talking about sex. I am talking about even sitting down next to a woman and having a conversation with her. It has gotten better in the last year. I still get rejected all the time, but this time I like myself and have confidence. The right woman has not come along yet, and if she never does than so be it. They all missed out being with a great guy and settled for other guys that have hidden issues, and they will not find out until they are deep in a relationship.
I agree with all that youve said Alex and wonder if there might be a space to add my theory to your observation.
My brother was all things testostrone when growing up. In his twenties, his wife left him with two young children and he was forced to take over as Mum and Dad. The transformation that this brought to him was simply amazing.
I believe that the gift that most women discover during child rearing is the gift of unconditional giving/loving. Most Men never have the opportunity to be in this position. After realising that unconditional giving is the most enriching experience in your life, you evolve into a much wiser person whose values alter forever. You appreciate a depth to a realationship that you never imagined possible.
I am saddened that many men I know will never experience this…. and whilst I have observed that men over 50 are more self reflective and looking for more in their relationships with women, I think this only comes about because their levels of testostrone plumet over this age.
I honestly believe that if men were in the same position as women when nurturing children, they would discover and evolve at an earlier age and their understanding, appreciation and desires would all be very different.
What do you think
I think the lesson of unconditional love is everything Odette.
I agree that many humans “get it” when they have children, many don’t get it all, and for others it is available in their romantic relationships.
It is the noticing that you can love absolutely a flawed and imperfect creature. And then realizing the staggering, impossible truth: That your own flaws and imperfections are also worthy of absolute love.
It brings you to your knees.
Great article! I do have to admit that I am a woman hater, fortunately not on the level of Elliott. I am very successful, educated, handsome and very well off financially. I do not flaunt my success because I wanted women to take me for who I am. I have given up on being with women. I travel alone and I am very content. I some times look down on women and rarely talk to them. I do have a few women friends, but for the most part I hate women. I would never mistreat them, but I find it a waste of time to pursue them. I loved making love to them, but now it seems to be a waste of time. I cringe at the idea of being in a relationship, although I’ve been in a few. I stopped pursuing because I don’t handle rejection very well. Women have a tendency of making being heartless when they reject men. Rather than put myself through the “rejection” process, I stopped pursuing and I began to hate to hate women.
Well, first of all you could read everything that Freud ever wrote on the subject. I only quickly glanced at the comments here, some are pretty superficial, others get into the technical things. There is the Oedipal thing, buried deep in the subconscious, where we resent being cut off from the limitless maternal affection when a sibling comes along. Being bottle fed instead of breast-fed begets a lot of bonding and intimacy issues that are not addressed publicly. In a book I read about Aubrey Beardsley, there was a comment from one of his contemporaries to the effect, “Show me a child who was denied the breast, and I’ll show you the pornographer”. It’s been said that boys who got along well with their mothers usually have good skills with women, and boys who did not get along with their mothers usually are uptight about it. Herman Hesse, in Magister Ludi, The Glass Bead Game (deep enough for ya, lads?) mentions how boys who grow up without sisters, sent to all male private academies often were awkward around women as adults. And growing up with sisters of course makes a big difference. As an only child, with an arthritically crippled and emotionally brittle mother, from the cortisone medication, and very few girls in my neighborhood, and being surrounded by Catholic institutions (a high school, a college and a convent all in my neighborhood), it took me a long time to relax about the subject. I could never understand why some of the boys in high school were so rude, vulgar and insulting to the girls, who were never as shocked as I would have expected. I later realized it had to do with large Catholic families – an entirely different mindset. (Yes, I have a degree in Sociology).
Also, when young, all of my friends were girls, so I took it for granted that it was not an issue. Then everyone else grew up, and I did not, getting consigned to “shrimp-ville”, where it seems that only the heavy set and tall girls, maybe, possibly like you, except for the popular ones who, inexplicably are occasionally, unexpectedly nice. I got to the point in High School that I figured I would just wait it out until I could get the hell out of there, and move away, and then on the last day of school, the prom queen, whom I hadn’t even spoken to since I was maybe, seven years old, was suddenly delighted to see me. Go figger! But a lot of the problems between shyer guys and girls comes from aggressive males, who, if one were physically equal, would be subject to “corrective” training. We smaller guys becomes humorists and diplomats, and get the brainy chicks later. It takes patience.
Add to this that I eventually discovered that I was very good in bed, but just not popular. Why? Because cute girls didn’t want the shame of being humiliated by packs of greaseball knuckle-draggers, so I hear one time, “Oh Gawd, what you do to me!”, followed by being ignored in public, again, due to the social aspects. Back door man?
Women are very social creatures, and they may privately admire a guy, but shun him in public because of their “brother’s friends”, or what have you. It’s a survival technique, and hard-wired in. In the 90’s, I traveled to Asia a couple of times, where women are still subservient, and in some cases was VERY popular, like in Northern Viet Nam, for example. But I’ve been grabbed a couple of times even in the U.S., and I’m over 60 now. The difference between me and guys who fall into depression and misogyny (Rodgers was likely acting more out of severe clinical depression as well as other psych issues) is that I never stopped seeking the perfect girl, and I got her, right at the end of college. I never “settled”, and being in the entertainment business, I have certainly seen numerous stunning beauties up close, and some are snotty, and some are surprisingly nice. Prettier than any magazine photo I’ve ever seen. Yes, had my arms around a few, too – not just an academic view. Being open and not reacting from internal stresses have a lot to do with that success.
For those who are wrestling with religious tenets, I can say that any time you don’t understand human behavior, look at it as very clever primates, with no spiritual component whatsoever. Remember that celibate priests wrote most of the moralistic texts we were indoctrinated with. Suppressing natural animal instinct is not equal to being in love with the spirit of divine service in the name of Christ. One holds you down and is not religion, and the other lifts you up, and transcends any dogma.
And last, chasing perfect “10’s” does not guarantee a great personality. Some girls are tramps and they are good for what they’re good for. Remember the late Robert Palmer: “A pretty face, don’t make a pretty heart”. And of course the Grateful Dead: “Stoke the fires of Heaven with coals from Hell to start, but never give your love my friend, unto a foolish heart”. Yeah, I play rock ‘n roll too. Cucarocha.
Thanks Alex for your insightful points to this terrible situation. As one of the post said the ‘blame game’ continues and the fear grows.
There is also the other side to this case of frustrated RAGE at broken sexual expectations – instead of going out on a kill spree a man kills themselves, in a messy suicide. I personally know of three suicides of male acquaintances over love or sex, and several others that may have been a contributing factor. Such agony is heart breaking. And then I found myself serious contemplating suicide for a few second amidst my marriage breakup. It stunned me how the love of my life could so cold and heartless. As ‘Okay-to-be-Honest’ said above – how deep those wounds of rejection can go. Some all the way to a grave.
The best advice you had Alex was to dig down to the latent fear and hatred and bring it out into the sunlight and fresh air. Not to relive or feel the pain again, but to keep calm, notice the emotion and accept that it happened. Breathe it out, and accept that this is part of your experience, Keeping calm, keep breathing it out and understand you can choose a different view of your past. I did quite a bit of this ‘mindfulness’ to be conscious of my buried pains and fears. Still working at it.
Alex, keep up the good work. We need more Authentic people and Authentic viewpoints in the world.
I think this is a good article as far as it went. I am sure some of the problem is sexual frustration due to sex drive but I would argue that a lot of these feelings are born of culture. In my opinion in this culture (United States) men are socialized with a sense of sexual entitlement and this places a great chasm between the genders. This also places women on the defensive and makes them protect what they have. When I started dating my now wife of 37 years we were actually playing out our roles in the opposite of the norm. I was the one resisting her sexual advances and wanted to wait. She found this both endearing (and unusual) and of course frustrating. She was however patient and let me come around in my own time. After dating for about 3 months, I made the decision to have sex (I was 19 years old and still a virgin). She was an experienced 24 year old college graduate. The interesting part was that after giving in and having sex once, my male cultural training kicked in and I felt entitled to it all the time. Of course, this made her feel like this was a mistake and took away most of her desire that was previously very strong. This interaction plagued our marriage for over 30 years until we figured out what had happened. To make a long complex story short, we felt the need to change our dynamics and I stopped pursuing her for sex and she stopped perceiving me as needy. I waited for her to make advances to me. In this way she has been able to find her own desire and I became less of a slave to my sex drive and now appear much more desirable to her. Of course, we both agreed to all these things after long exploration. We now are in a new more egalitarian phase of our marriage. We are both filled with incredible passion and feel like we are married to new people.
Inspirational story, Steve, thanks for sharing.
Thanks Alex. Great post. I also enjoyed reading the comments from all of the men. Being female, but not speaking for others, just myself, I love men. Women and men can both be mean. If there were more love and honesty in this life, alot of us would be alot happier. Being with someone, touching, talking, getting to know each other is a wonderful feeling. A feeling that we all crave, even some of the people that say they hate each other. Sex is a basic need and want. I appreciate hearing the comments from the guys here. But please don’t judge all of us women the same way. Some of us really do need and want you to be just you. Thank you all.
* I’m not taking 100% responsibility for anyone else’s actions, feelings, etc. That’s them, and none of my business.
* I have a right to my own standards and expectations at any level I want. That’s me and none of your business.
* I have a right to whatever level of feelings I will have when people fulfill or miss my standards and expectations.
* I have a right to love or hate anyone I want.
I’m not going to feel good/bad/etc about loving or hating anyone, and I’m not going to feel good/bad/etc about even HAVING feelings of love or hate. I don’t believe that vilifying these natural human qualities/traits helps me in any way. No more BS. It is what it is, in this moment, because of my past programming.
However, once I REALIZE that I have previous programming instilled in me from whatever upbringing I had, THEN it’s up to me to continue using it, or change it, or completely replace it. But that’s a CHOICE for the future. I can, but I don’t HAVE to. Regardless of the time period (past/present/future) I now accept my own rights, and my right to change my programming, and my right to not do anything and continue to love or hate whatever I want. I love hating some people, and I hate loving some people, and I love loving some people, and I hate hating some people. So what. Chasing idealistic feelings like happiness is way overrated. Just accepting and fully-feeling the existing feelings is way better. And that’s where I’m at. I’m not really into changing for the sake of the outside world anymore. It’s about time the world changed for me. And if it never does…well then I’m ok hating it, you, myself, whatever too.
You humans are a mess. I’m going back to my robot planet to have a oil-rub with WD-40 and a Jiffy-Lube…if you know what I mean. Fuck it.
From reading here comments, one thing seems to shine through:
Being a human chimp is fucking tough.
You all have contributed very valid points, but there is a venue where these behaviours have also been “taught” to us as well. I am of course talking about media and advertising industries.
Have you all closely watched how some men in tv are portrayed within the last 5 years? 10? Even 40? A lot of what is seen and advertised shows us that men are perceived to be fat, lazy, dumb, insensitive, losers who can’t keep it together, dogs that are only looking to suit their sexual needs & deserve to be made fun of by our female counterparts so they look better off being in-charge of everything. Basically, men and boys alike learn what the world thinks of the idea of the overall aspect of manhood & will continually ground and pound us until there is nothing left.
Advertising also goes deep as well, by watching commercials, we are so hopelessly lost until we buy this or that product to get the job done (pua and other dating gurus also guilty of this too.)
Now as a young guy trying to still figure out what it truly means to be a man in every aspect (sexual realm as well) & follower of Christ, these issues that we have all talked about is one of the biggest things that is bothers me to the core of my being aside from many a woman’s part in passing the buck in their lives and blaming men / man in their lives for THEIR mistakes & misgivings (by way of cheating or any other issues they have a hand in).
All in all, I admit as a guy who wants what life has to offer and deserves every inch of it all, that I do love the women in my life now and am eagerly still waiting for the opportunity to act in the area of being a man and allowing myself to choose the special girl to spend the rest of my life with. But for both sides involved, the saying “a few rotten apples spoil the bunch!” Is so true. Ladies, don’t pretty yourselves up in front of everyone when you do wrong and blame it all on us guys when you choose to do so. Same thing as well to you men, if everyone would own up to all that makes us ugly and beautiful inside and out teach the next generations to do the same ( they too are watching and learning even when we are not around.) everyone would be better off.
And I would go deeper into the subject (generally and biblically) but not everyone holds the same values as I, however the princaples remain the same nonetheless.
And don’t get me started on what the porn industry has done to us all….
The notion of responsibility and blame lies deeply at the base of many of the comments.
I found this the most upsetting and reasuring parts of this discussion so far.
In my limited experience of life-
We profoundly effect the behaviour of the people around us- lookup operant conditioning.
Their are many more behaviours than those of the two people relating in our current relationship.
Some cultures and some people have better male-female interactions than others, which is a skill that is learned.
Many men and women do not want a partner from their own culture, others would never have relations outside their cultures.
It takes little effort to get into any relationship that can have life long consequences good or bad.
It takes effort, thus responsibility, to maintain, grow and stop relationships turning sour or to end them without inflicting pain.
We can take the problems from our previous relationships, if unresolved and dump them into your new relationship.
There can be a great cost to ones life and society, if a healthy attitude toward the opposite sex and relationship is not developed early on and positively reinforced through life.
The most precarious of all relationships to develop is the relationship that we have with ourselves and how we take responsibility for this as it develops.
I believe there is only one thing we can truly control in life and that is what goes on inside ourselves, health permitting.
Isn’t it everyones responsibility to workout how to make our internal lives work for us rather than against us?
After all it’s our life, and don’t we have more developed abilities to overcome innate behaviours?
For me, there was no success in life until I had meaningful relationships with women, good being maintained and bad being avoided.
I thank the PUA community for linking me here to Alex’s and others great work.
Their work is way beyond what I thought I already had a handle on, it’s really helping me with the getting over and rebuilding after I lost my marriage to avoiding responsibility and shifting blame, thank you.
Most women do not have orgasms during sex most of the time. If a guy could wear those shoes maybe he would grasp a woman’s perspective. Would a man want to provide a woman with sexual pleasure if he rarely experienced any in return, (oftentimes because she was only interested in what she could get out of him) and then usually found himself dumped after obliging her?
Love is the only truth, the only way, going beyond ego.where only the spirit exists.something Devine that we all truly want, as humans, sometging we have and are a part of. Thank you Alex! For all your help over the years.
If any of you humans want answers which i’m sure ALL of you do. I recommend you watch “DMT, the spirit molecule”. and don’t lose GOD. I don’t want to send any body down the wrong path to hell, Or be responsible for it. So please believe in him once you witness the beautiful truth.his beautiful truth.and what love really is. It definitely cannot be explained! But you can have it! Anyone who is suffering on this earth, once you witness it.
I can only say for myself that it enhanced my life forever and any one or anything I encounter.I cannot say that it will work for you, but I recommend this life changing experience.I just wish you guys all seen what I seen.I wish that it falls upon everyone.so if you’re longing four love, truth, peace…a set of new eyes.just watch it at least..you don’t have to do anything if you don’t want to.the choice is yours
I hold that there is a complementary and symbiotic relationship (at its best) between women and men, the ying and yang. Both are equally valuable, in our own ways. There is a check and balances system between us two that must be equilibrated to remain healthy..
As a woman, I have personally experienced relentless misogyny in my life. I expect that is because I went to West Point and was in the military for years. I’ve had professors yell at me for nothing, guys just glare at me in barely repressed anger for simply knocking on their door, been publicly humiliated and insulted an untold number of times, been either targeted by senior male officers to ruin my career, or conversely, neglected by them. Have had to listen to an inordinate number of public comments about how unfortunate men are that they have to “put up with women ” ie the 50% of the population. I’ve seen it all… and I’m not fooled by it …and am very successful despite it.
I am very heartened by the soul searching comments by many men here. Though it is dissapointing to view the never-ending “blamers” diatribes, those who refuse to take responsibility for their relationships with women and refuse to cherish the feminine. The message I have heard in our macho culture is that to be a woman is somehow wrong (mind you, I don’t believe that anymore). I don’t harbor hate towards anyone but I do close off to you guys at times, for fear that you too are a misogynist… or a creep.
I won’t entertain any man who harbors misogynistic traits. Personally, I will only receive a worthy man, and they are hard to find. Thankfully, I already have one. He allows me to be feminine, without the negative judgments of so many other guys, which enables me to support him.
Okay keep the great info coming Alex, I have to say that this article completely baffled me. I never knew that me carry a hate towards us women. I would love to hear more about this in detail because I cannot quite understand why the hate begins and how us women can help to stop the hate from starting.
I read a book recently called For Women Only. I did find the first chapter really informative. It covered how men need respect. I never thought of men that way before and I am also guilty of not respecting my husband. This is something that I am trying to fix within myself as we speak. I did notice after reading the book that we do live in a culture that labels men as idiots. As a woman I was not aware that I was doing so much damage.
My question is to the men here how can us woman show you respect? Why do men get married in the first place? I have wanted an answer to that question for ages. What do men need us women to provide? I do what to be there for my husband and support him. However I am not sure how to go about it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
A man wants to feel like he’s your hero.
All humans want to be seen and recognized for the abilities, their accomplishments, their contributions, and their efforts.
For men this means acknowledgement that we’re being a good man for you. One of the sweet things about giving your man respect for his real contributions to “manning” for you is that all humans also RISE TO THE EXPECTATIONS OF OTHERS. Sadly we also sink to their expectations.
When you give your man respect, admiration, and appreciation, he will be become increasingly more deserving of that respect. In effect, you’ll be building a better husband, and you’ll both enjoy it.
Note for men: It works in the opposite direction too. What women most want is acknowledgment and appreciation of their love and the feeling of being desired and, of course, appreciated for their contributions to the relationship.
I have been fascinated by women since puberty. I interacted with them. I socialized with them. I played with them. I read about them. I studied them. I wanted to know everything about them that I possibly could. I discovered that to have a quality women as your partner in this life, you had to be a quality man. So I worked on myself physically. I worked on myself mentally. I worked on myself spiritually. I worked on myself financially. I then realized that it was important to understand and master the dynamics between men and women, so I studied relationships. I developed communication skills. I studied all aspects of human sexuality from every conceivable angle, and spent hours upon hours practicing with women I deeply cared about.
And I loved with every fiber of my being. Fully. Openly. Completely. Wide open.
It has been a fool’s errand.
I don’t care who is responsible. I don’t care who is at fault. I don’t care that it is human nature. I don’t care.
Angry? Yes. Wiser? Yes.
I’m nearing the end of my years, and I finally realize that men can’t please women.
So I’m done trying.
I’m going to go fishing and be happy.
Without a woman.
No matter how much you work out and no matter how healthy you eat, you will still die.
No matter how much you work on yourself as a man and on your relationship skills, women will still be humans. Nothing YOU do will make THEM perfect. And you’ll never make your self perfect either.
The thing you might want to work on is forgiveness and the ability to be okay with us flawed humans.
Or, of course, go fishing and be happy without a woman. There’s nothing wrong with living your life as you please.
This is a reply directed at “Ehhh..”: Thank you for the greatest comment on a dating site, ever. Of course, Alex always has to add his rosey “happy-spin” to everything, but you speak the blunt truth of the matter: “Men can’t please women.” If that’s the nature of us humans and I’m supposed to accept that…then yes, I accept it. Just like I accept sticking a fork in my eye is painful to the nature of humans too. Doesn’t mean I like it, or am going to do it. Bunch of sickos we all are.
I really love David Deida’s work because he tells it like it is. As chapter 1 of “The Way of the Superior Man” says: “In addition to the myth that one day your life will be fundamentally different, you may believe, and hope, that one day your woman will be fundamentally different. Don’t wait. Assume she’s going to be however she is, forever. If your woman’s behavior or mood is truly intolerable to you, you should leave her, and don’t look back (since you cannot change her). However, if you find her behavior or mood is merely distasteful or a hassle, realize that she will always seem this way: The feminine always seems chaotic and complicated from the perspective of the masculine.”
I understand this to mean that somehow I’m supposed to enjoy the damn hassle of women, enjoy the endless struggle or challenge they like to bring, until the day I die. Well, that might have been nice back in the simpler world of times PAST. Food, shelter, clothing, a trade, and a SHORT boring life led one to enjoy the constant challenge of an emotional and emotion-provoking woman.
But, that world is GONE. We in the PRESENT are being DESTORYED on a collective and individual level by every onslaught possible: agricultural poisons and GMO, environmental poisons and geoengineering, corporate control and disposable wrongsizing, completely backwards medical care, government tyranny, global banksters pillaging, actual gender destruction physically & emotionally, cognitive dumbsizing, mass-consumerism and media mind-control, strangulation of the natural global cycles, raping of Mother Earth, perversion of EVERYTHING wholesome & rejuvenating, etc. This is literally the WORST of every system being dished out…SIMULTANEOUSLY. And I’m supposed to flex my “masculinity” in the face of all that, and then come home to some woman who feels compelled to dish out her petty little shit-tests to test my masculinity too??? I agree that men should shine their “Gift” to the world in spite of challenges. However, most women are just too IMMATURE or even just plain DUMB to recognize that we men ALREADY prove ourselves EVERY FUCKING DAY against the onslaught of ALL the challenges, and their little primitive drives are ANTIQUATED NONSENSE. They just never GET IT that enough is enough already. I’m full. I’m done. I’ve proved myself a million times and I don’t need your million-and-one today, next week, or EVER. I don’t need a drop more of bullshit. Neither does any other guy I know. FUCK THAT SHIT. Where are the “QUEENS”?…because I’ve met a lot of PEASANTS and PRINCESSES. I’m not saying I’m a KING, because that’s shit too. I’m a WARRIOR, and WARRIORS rarely become king because Royalty is another bullshit human construct for dumbass followers.
Hey “Ehhh..”: save a spot next to me at that fishing hole until these women evolve their primitive shit to the epic battle of the 21st century. We need them. It should be Men + Women fighting for the literal FUTURE of the human race….not Men vs Women EVER again…at least not until we get our beautifully simple Earth systems and lifestyle back (Humanity 2.0), if that ever happens…
You are wise beyond your years sir.
How do you handle and explain widowed. men with kids who promise they are monogomous–yet only see a woman once every few weeks claiming busy times with family and their job? Dates are great and so are vacations away. No talking in between dates, not getting gifts or spending family time. Seems fearful of serious relationship or not interested. Feminine women bond with sex. You say men are fearful of women or have contempt. We fall for a man when we have sex and want more including marriage and to give our full passion but need to feel it’s long term and safe.
All men are different. Different humans have different needs, desires, and fears. Their behaviors, the good ones and the maddening ones, are their complicated attempts at dealing with those needs, desires, and fears.
Be honest, Alex, would you want to be loved for the way you play with your freaking hair??!! …even in the examples you offer as proof that men actually do love women, it lurks… “We love what you DO for us, not who you are.” A minor point? I don’t think so, it’s recurrent theme: “I am ENRAGED because you won’t do what I want you to! I want sex, so give it to me! I am not INTERESTED in your humanity or your identity!” and of course, “I would rather make a study of how to manipulate you than have to RELATE TO YOU.”
And, of course, women are also angry with men 🙂
I think the majority of my readers understand that I am not being offensive when I say that men love the way women play with their hair. It is a metaphor for those little ways in which you are different from us that we find charming.
There are infinite ways in which we are the same. And to the degree that you are admirable in those ways… let’s say, “intelligence” or “gift for playing the guitar,” we may appreciate you. But the feminine aspects are irresistible and delightful in a different way.
A few nights ago I was watching a movie with my wife, and her head was on my chest, and in the battle scene when the good guy was in danger, my heart was racing because I was relating strongly with the hero…
My wife started to laugh and made fun of me for it… but really, what was happening, was that she was utterly charmed by my maleness… but the simple, silly little ways in which I act like a boy– different from her. She was, in a sense, loving the way I “played with my hair.” And, yes, of course I enjoyed it very much.
You can be angry with men because they are more interested in making a study of manipulation than relating… or you can have compassion for their humanity and frustration that left them feeling like they simply couldn’t win the “relating” game… and in their disappointment and disillusionment, they turned to manipulation.
Judge them if you will, but you will never ever earn the true depth of a man’s love that way.
I recommend, instead, compassion, wisdom, and the opportunity to inspire them to be the better man.
“couldn’t win the “relating” game… ”
It’s not a game to be won. This kind of conceptualization is part of the problem.
I find women incredibly boring, and annoying. I have absolutely no interest in them other than sex, and I would rather not have sex than waste any time interacting with women.
Most of the women nowadays are real Easy to hate especially the ones that like to Cheat on us Good men that had this happened to us already unfortunately since they turned out to be such Pathetic Losers.
I always hated women all my life. It got worse and worse even before my teens till It came to a point of no return by the time I was 15, because of many rejections (actually, 100%). My only revenge: I never EVER gave them what they wanted: Talk, talk, talk and more talk…. I never EVER had a female friend, and only talked about work and business in general. I never EVER had a problem dealing with women in these situations, if she is the president or the cleaning lady I treat her with the same respect, nobody knows that I hated them all my life. I just never wanted anything to do with them out of business or work, period. They did not give me kisses/sex when I needed them the most, right? So I don`t answer anything personal that they ask me. I listen to classical music, run marathons, I don`t smoke, drink or use drugs, and I`m more or less good looking, but I get bored hike hell when they talk to me. I had a few dates till I reached 19, but I hated losing all that time. I don`t like to hear girls talk anymore. When they talk to me now, if it`s not work/business-related, I don`t even look in their faces. In the last 11 years I never dated anyone, and I don`t use hookers because I`m afraid of STDs (a lot) and the law (a little). I never had male friends also. I think they are all stupid. But professionally I`m more than ok. I was chosen to be a leader by my co-workers, people expect me to make quick decisions and I always deliver, I`m admired a lot in my work (I`m 30 now), no one envies me, no one hates me, but I never EVER accept any invitation to hang out with my working crowd, I don`t have a clue about what they think about me out of work and I don`t care. If they think I`m crazy, so be it. As long as they pretend to respect me. I love the fact that I don`t have to see the face of any women that rejected me anymore, and there are more than 50 of them. I feel perfectly well the way things are going in my job, but I hate my life out of my work. But I have plenty of compensation, the biggest one being “total silence” when I`m at home. No pets, not even a turtle. My phone hardly ever rings. If it`s work related, I`ll do anything to help anybody, even someone else`s work (for a man or woman). But if it`s personal, I have “my ways®” to make sure that the caller won`t be offended but won`t ever call me again (man or woman). Horrible, right? The worse part: I think I`ll reach 100 years old because I have perfect health and I don`t have the nerve to kill myself. I wish I had. I have access to plenty of high places that are perfect to a jump but I just look down and I know that I can`t make the “final move”. Last time I tried was more than 5 years ago, right before I got his job – totally unexpected. I thought that I would never get a good job because nowadays someone that does not have a Facebook account is very suspicious. But I`m a valuable nerd and I never stop studying. At least a small but very important positive message (never stop studying! It makes you more intelligent and happier!), at the end of this… …rant? …history of my life in a nutshell? Whatever…. My final decision: I don`t want to start knowing now what I missed in the first 30 years of my life. So, I prefer not to try to get my mind “fixed” so I could start having relationships. Probably it reeeeeeeeeeally can`t be fixed anymore. So, it could even be another very bad experience for all parts involved. Enough is enough.
You know man, it’s not the path I would choose, but if it works for you, that’s what matters. There’s a lot of pressure for having the “normal” life you “should” have, and you have charted a different course away from the company of other humans. I agree, there’s no “fixing” necessary for your past. The only question is:
Are you happy?
Is this your choice?
You DO have a choice, and the choice rests, not in fixing what you “missed” in the first 30 years… the first 30 years are basically a big experiment in growing up for all of us. No, the issue is only what you want to CREATE for the next 30 years.
What you do with your life, starting tomorrow (and every tomorrow), is typically grounded in what you did today… a continuation. But it doesn’t have to be. There is ALWAYS the possibility of starting something COMPLETELY NEW.
The good news is that it’s always YOUR choice.
No, I`m not happy, and it`s not my choice. Never was, never will be. I would be fooling myself if I thought I have this kind of choice now. Hating women is my response to what they are, not my choice.
I hear you. And I’d like to add just this: We are, all of us, struggling humans. We are flawed, fucked up, think dark thoughts, and often we are our own worst enemies. (In fact, the highest leverage thing anyone can do to improve their circumstances in life is to go to work on getting more perspective and control over our chattering internal dialog). Please consider that that what women are… is exactly what you are. They are struggling with their insecurities, trying to figure out a path to happiness, and many of them struggle with many of the same dark thoughts you have. You may find, some day, a woman who “gets you” right down to your shoes, and who brings a crack of light into your dark places, through a doorway you never knew was there.
I wish you well my friend.
Thanks for your effort in this forum, Alex. You let no one unanswered!
Males don’t love women, males love how women’s bodies make them feel (especially to other males) and when they can’t get access (as if women are as tradable as wine) this is where male repression and control tactics come in to play. The ‘default human’ manipulating, threatening and dehumanizing the “othered”; from hysteria asylums (the irrational woman) to witch burnings (the evil temptress), genital mutilation, acid burnings, trafficking, corrective rape, prohibition from education, lower access to living wages, Eve etc. – All to keep their control, to keep us as their things.
Males projecting their fantasies or delusions onto us, silencing our experiences and declaring their narrative our reality (women don’t know what they want, no means yes). Males opinions are “objective”, women’s are “subjective”, male opinions are logical, women’s are anecdotal feelings, males anger is passion and righteousness, women’s anger is being an uppity bitch not knowing her place, the place that males decided we belong long before we even had a chance to explore and delegated us there.
Males get mad when we don’t open and spread for just anyone (then get mad if we do) – Males hate us openly without shame; then shame us for having the audacity to fear males based on their history of gendercide, sexual violence, exclusion from societal decisions and utter contempt. Males are mad that we aren’t docile animals waiting to be picked off, males are mad that we have autonomy, males are mad that we resist and the very real threat of violence is always there for women who resist the male narrative.
You ever wonder why women who hate males, go off the grid and start women only communes, but males who hate women stalk, peep and use all sorts of methods to “take revenge”. It’s a deep pathology, where males are validated by their “conquests” and destruction of women’s bodies, this is why they fight so hard to keep us down and controlled, so they can continue to colonize us mentally and physically. There is absolutely no self-awareness though, none whatsoever in the male psyche. For whatever it is they want, they “deserve to get”; at the expense of anyone. Forever toddlers in adult bodies, which is a terrifying reality to face.
I don’t like males, I also don’t want to hurt them. I just want nothing to do with them and I try my hardest to navigate around them. – “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.” That says it all doesn’t it? – Name the problem.
Whew! Jasna, this was a tough one. There is a lot of reality here, no doubt, and it’s painful stuff.
The truth of the matter is that while men are afraid of women laughing at them, they are more afraid of another man killing them too. And most of us are willing to die to protect a woman from harm. It’s a confusing mess to be a human.
Lions are beautiful and noble creatures, but they live by killing and eating without mercy– babies, mothers, the sick, they don’t give a shit. Leopards hunt for sport. And of course, humans are the cruelest, by far, of all animals on this planet. And also the only ones capable of self-reflection, art, and self evolution.
Men are raised by mothers. Mothers are raised in their father’s house. We are not so easily separated into the good gender and the bad gender. We are, all of us, in this human thing together. Often for the worse– but sometimes, I promise you, for the better.
While you wrote many paragraphs of fact, all of those facts are in support of the one, absolutely untrue thing at the very top. There are men who love.
3000 years of dehumanizing women yet men expect our unconditional love. How insane is that?!
Yet you hate us because of what..what have we women done to you that is as horrible as what you have done to us for thousands of years? Really! Explain.
You can’t deny history and facts and I wish men for once would aknowledge all of the horrific things you have done to us. Even you don’t even aknowledge what Jasna wrote, you start talking about felines and how men are raised by mothers. Defelecting as usual!
You are so right Daniela! And I agree it’s utterly unfair. All of the violence, all of the aggression, and all of the serious problems in the world are caused by the male of our species. Nature seems to have evolved us in two parts, with the female having a more nurturing aspect (appropriately since breast feeding our helpless young is a years-long endeavor upon which the survival of the species depends), and the males having a more aggressive aspect (which unpleasant and uncivilized as it seems to me and you, must somehow have been wired by evolution or God for the survival of the species).
As many sane people will point out: Men fear humiliation at the hands of women, and women fear rape and murder at the hands of men. It’s not, in any way, fair.
And yet, “3000 years of dehumanizing women” indicates that this is so. In fact, written history extends almost twice that long, more than 5000 years, and the archaeological record past that is no more optimistic. This has been the way of our species for as long as homo sapiens has existed.
The glimmer of good news is that, as bad as it is right now, it has actually never been better.
Women are safer now from rape and violence as a percentage of global population than ever before in history. And even more promising (though painful), is that we are talking about it in the public forum. There is hope that things will continue to improve.
But I fear that the nature of males will always be aggression and that our only hope is that we can be better parents to the next generation and teach our boys to be better, kinder, more empathic, more gentle, and more moral than we were.
Hello, I just wanted to say thank you for this article. As a woman it was pretty hard to read this and not feel defensive/afraid. At first, reading how every man carries a certain amount of resentment/rage towards women seemed to justify my reasons for fearing men, and it would be easy to just say well most men suck and there’s nothing I can do about it. But instead I began analyzing myself very deeply and I realized that I infact have more in common with men in general than I realized. I’m no better bc I also carry deeply buried resentment, and like most men, I still care for the opposite sex and don’t wish them to suffer in any way. My resentment seems to stem from the perception that men want to hurt/use/trick me, and I think it’s all related to bad experiences with some men. For example, I’m still angry and hurt by the grown men who touched me inappropriately as a child and sexualized me and it took me a long time to realize it. Im angry for all the sexual harassment I’ve experienced throughout my life. I’m angry about the guy who slapped me really hard in elementary school for stranded up for a gf of mine whom he was insulting. I’m angry about the guy who slammed me up against a wall by my throats in middle school, I had never even met him or said a word to him before that. I’m mad for all the sexual harassment, insults and violence. And while too many men in my life mistreated me, they don’t even account for a tiny fraction of all the men who exist in the world. Yet the resentment takes illogical form in my heart and mind. It’s hard to explain but it’s like I constantly feel I am drowning in this fear, sometimes I manage to stay near the surface but at times I sink deeper than usual, and that’s when I think I really internalize the resentment without even meaning to. Like I said it’s unfair to men, especially when I know some very good men who would never harm anyone, and logically I think many men whom I’ve never met would either. So I want to change this about myself. I’m sorry for the long rant I was hoping to show that I don’t blame men for their hurt and resentment as I am no better in that regard.
There are some truly shitty humans out there, and it is completely understandable if someone loses faith. I mean, this is also what fuels racism– the guy that was victimized by a black criminal, the guy victimized by the white cop, the man humiliated by the woman, and on and on.
Deciding to continue to live with an open heart and expecting the best of each person you meet, knowing that they too have been damaged in their lives and taking their chances, is an act of great courage. It may get you hurt for sure. But life is short, and it seems to me that it doesn’t make sense not to play hard while you are out here on the field (to use a very male metaphor!)
But the most important piece of advice I can give you is to jiu-jitsu this in reverse, and recognize, not that you are “no better,” but rather, that you are “no worse,” and that you can only be accountable for you: You get to choose to not be a victim, not be a cynic, not to hide away from love. You get to choose to forgive yourself and be completely at ease with yourself with all of your human faults along for the ride. Recognize that you deserve to surround yourself with people – friends and lovers – who make that same decision, who are ready to live with open hearts. Don’t judge others for their humanity, but don’t accept less from others than the amount of freedom, forgiveness, and open-heartedness that you, yourself are capable of.
Im trying really hard to be fair about all this but I have to admit that everything Jasna says here resonates very strongly within me! There is so much fact in what she says and it has always giveb me this feeling of impending doom as well as heartache and disappointment. It’s like a paranoia deeply rooted in me about men in general. Like how will I ever know what’s truly in a mans heart. Do some men only love me bc they are related to me and therefor not sexually conflicted by our relationship. (There has been an exception in that regard). And did the man who has come to love only do so bc of my body and looks? What if I weren’t attractive, than what? Is male love basically superficial? These are things that I don’t want to believe and I don’t want to insult any men I am just trying to be honest about my feelings. I’m struggling here as I still desire to have meaningful relationships with men and I don’t want to stigmatize them:/
Humans, including men, are complicated. And for all of us, the question of who actually likes us, who is just being polite, and who just wants something from us, is very difficult to resolve.
I was out with some friends a few years ago, him a zillionaire who inherited a fortune, and her a dazzling beauty who inherited fortunate genetics. I’m sure many people who saw them pulling up to a valet in an Italian sports car made assumptions about the exchange of value there, but the truth is, they cared deeply for each other and as we were talking late into the night on that particular evening, I realized that they were fiercely bonded by a common reality:
Neither of them ever knew who their “real” friends were because so many people wanted to get close to them for their socially powerful assets of money and beauty. They are not still together, but they are still fierce friends, and it makes total sense.
I hate women and really want help
Well most of the women today absolutely have no respect for us good men anymore and a very rotten personality as well unfortunately which really speaks for itself.
Well, as long as we’re being real honest here, consider this:
I have a totally different experience. Almost every woman I meet give me enormous respect (often more than I think I deserve), and while I certainly don’t get along with everyone, I find most (more than half) of the women I get to know to have great personalities.
And I travel a lot, change cities a lot (I’ve lived in 6 cities in the past 5 years), and meet a LOT of people.
So the question is, why are the women I meet respectful and interesting, the women you meet, disrespectful and rotten?
One possibility is that you have insanely bad luck!
The other possibility is that it is something that you are bringing out in them. Just a possibility, but one that’s worth thinking about.
It is very hard to like an animal on two legs.
Men are selfish. Testosterone is just an excuse. They always take yet never give. Because their mothers always give but never taught them to give back. Hence the breakups and the divorce. When women refuse to give. Their sense of ego and entitlement comes into play. Shame on them. May them be frustrated for as long as they live.
YES Yenne, that is so true… AND…
WOMEN are selfish! PMS is just an excuse. They always take and yet never give (ask many a guy on a first date that went badly as he’s pulling out his wallet). It *might be* because their mothers always gave but never taught them to give back (but that’s because mommies are out-of-this-world selfless and loving, and babies don’t know how to do anything but take. I’ve got a baby-girl myself, who I love more than anything on this Earth, and it’s FUN to give and give and give to your baby– nobody expects anything back from a baby! Not mommies or daddies!).
When men refuse to give, women’s sense of ego and entitlement comes into play…
But here is where we disagree Yenne– you are so wrong to say, “shame on them.” There is no shame in being human. We all get frustrated in relationship. Men have their hearts broken by women, women have their hearts broken by men– and from my chair, counseling both, I find it quite ironic that somehow they can’t see that this happens in both directions.
When it happens to YOU, it feels terrible, and it’s so easy to paint yourself as the poor victim and blame the other gender. And that might be soothing for a time, and you’ll find plenty other people of your gender, man or woman, who will say, “yeah! they suck!” and that feels validating and soothing too…
But it comes at a high cost, because when you do that, you cut yourself off from those of us (men and women) that don’t make ourselves out to be the victims– and you don’t want to do that, because we’re the ones who end up in happy and fulfilling relationships.
The truth is we live in a world where most humans have an over-developed sense of entitlement. It doesn’t matter whether they have a penis or a vagina.
And in relationship, it’s my observation that everybody thinks they are the one that gives, and everyone feels like their partner is being selfish and entitled every time their partner doesn’t AGREE with them. That’s what makes relationships challenging– we humans simply don’t always agree, and when you are trying to forge a relationship with someone, that can be painful.
With maturity comes a greater capacity to understand that and to work lovingly towards a solution. Eventually, working through issues together builds greater confidence in the bonds of your relationship, and your capacity to honor disagreement actually funds greater trust and love.
But you never get to experience that– not ever in your lifetime– if you choose instead to “shame on them.” And that would be a tragedy.
My strong advice: Choose love.
Talking from experience. I am tired of being viewed as the “emotional moody bad girl” or any other negative image males have labeled the female gender. I am tired of compromising to be the only one who cares enough to put in the work. Males only care about sex. They admit it. They also admit they want it with as many females as possible. What kind of love is that? There is no love or loyalty with the male gender. They’re very self centered. I hate them and I hate myself because of them. I hate feeling this way and I hate being used. If you hate females so much leave us alone and go fuck “yourself” . Stop putting my gender down and stop using is for your own selfish desires. Stop the lying and the rest of the bullshit. toxic assholes.