Over there… There’s that one smokin’ hot chick in the room (it doesn’t matter if it’s a bar, a party, a classroom, an office…) It’s impossible to not NOTICE her.
A certain amount of energy is humming in your brain and in your body — because of her.
Deep rabbit hole alert: This is going to get controversial…
Whether you are male or female reading this: That “smokin’ hot chick” that I’m talking about — just sitting in your chair and thinking about her right now, just the fact that I’m writing about her — is bringing up some emotions for you.
Physical beauty is a deep and fascinating subject. And we humans are powerfully affected by it.
I don’t know how much of it is genetic and how much of it is the social status that our (U.S.) culture places upon it, but the simple fact is, beauty is not without it’s serious problems.
I could write a book on the difficult issues and challenges it raises for the woman (or even a very young girl) who possesses remarkable physical beauty — it will be nearly impossible for her entire life to not get caught up the expectations, positive and negative, from the rest of us– but in this post I’m not talking about her issues… I’m going to talk about the problem it raises for the rest of us.
Recently I wrote a review about a program that a close friend of mine created for “how to get a girlfriend,” and in my review I mentioned that he himself has a very beautiful girlfriend (she’s a professional model in fact), and further, the sales copy of his program also talks about how he dated “all of these beautiful women and models” before meeting his current girlfriend, as way to convince men they should trust him and buy his program. (As a side note, because he’s a friend and I don’t want it to be misinterpreted, it’s entirely true). [Update: In the years since I first posted this, I officiated their wedding and they are deliriously happy!]
I got several emails from female readers saying that they were disappointed that I wrote the review the way I did, and that I was furthering the idea that men only wanted “beautiful” women as girlfriends.
They complained about how every “average” or even “ugly” guy, spends his days and nights trying to figure out how to land that smokin’ hot chick… even if it means that he ends up being lonely and frustrated… when there were plenty of “average” looking women that would be delighted to have a nice boyfriend.
About 25 years ago a friend of mine from Europe (herself, as it happens, a smokin’ hot chick) said to me, with a tear in her eye: “It must be just awful to be an unattractive woman in the United States.”
Back in her Scandinavian country, there was no social stigma for average looking people to date and fall in love with each other, or anyone else. “Looks” in general were not as highly regarded, and being unattractive was no indication of your social value, and did not automatically mean that it would be difficult for you to find a date, or a mate.
I haven’t spoken with her about it in a while, but I doubt that it’s true anymore, because the U.S. is a monster at exporting our culture through television and movies and now facebook and instagram, and I have many readers in Europe–and based on their emails, they have fallen victim to the mania around physical beauty.
(And of course I don’t mean to say that the U.S. invented this issue because Helen of Troy caused a war with her physical beauty… and even if that story is apocryphal, a lot of ancient greeks head it and thought, “sounds true to me.”)
The smokin’ hot chick:
Women are jealous of her and resent her, and men want her and hold a grudge against her when they can’t have her. (I’m not talking about YOU, dear reader, of course!) but the bottom line is that she causes a lot of problems for the rest of us.
I thought about these emails that I was getting from women, and how unfair it really is that this stereotype exists, and that our culture reinforces the idea that every man harbors this ultimate desire to one day get the hot chick… even if it means that he’s stuck alone if he can’t be with one.
My brilliant friend Eben Pagan wrote (under the pen name David DeAngelo) a series of excellent books and programs about how a man can become more attractive to women, and he made this observation that he refers to as the “elusive obvious”:
“Attraction is not a choice.”
Said another way: We don’t CHOOSE who we’re attracted to. You can’t talk a woman into being attracted to you. If she’s not sexually attracted to you, you can buy her drinks and flowers and take her on expensive dates, and you can logically explain all day why you are such good husband-material, but none of that is ever going to change her physical response to you.
She might think you’re a nice guy and WISH that she was attracted to you, but it’s not a choice.
This is equally true for women. It’s not fair, but “attraction is not a choice.” A man is either attracted to you or he’s not, and there are a very small number women out there that soak up most of the male attention.
It’s also known (and probably biologically wired), that while women are attracted to physically beautiful men, it is less important to them than many other factors, whereas men are much more attached to physical beauty as an attraction trigger.
Here’s the other side though:
While it’s true that very beautiful women have more “universal appeal” that nearly every man finds desirable– it’s also true that every man also has a unique and personal set of physical attributes that he finds particularly attractive…
There are many women out there that are extremely polarizing: Some men find them irresistible while other men have no interest in them.
Taking this further, there are also women that, PHYSICALLY, are “just right” for a subset of men, even though they may not be that attractive to the general population of men.
Now I emphasized “physically” in all capital letters above, because there are an entire series of other, non-physical female attributes that males find sexually attractive:
A bright, unguarded smile, a flirty sense of humor, feminine mannerisms, social status, playfulness, and an innocent (or sometimes a “bad girl”) nature, high self esteem, and positive self-image of her body and sexuality are some very big ones.
But like physical attributes, where some men like big breasts but many prefer small, these characteristics are very particular for particular men.
Some men love jaded and sexually aggressive women, while others have a thing for the innocent girl next door, or hippie chicks, or glam girls, or biker babes.
Based on this, there should be a guy for every girl and a girl for every guy.
And yet, this is not the case.
Compared with generations past we live in a world where many more men and women than ever before are lonely and struggle to find sex, intimacy, and partnership.
The reason for this is the powerful social status we have placed on physical beauty as a society, and a fetishization of “hypergamy”.
Hypergamy means “marrying above your social class,” like the rich debutante falling for the farm boy or Cinderella marrying the prince.
Today “hpergamy” is becoming a common term of derision towards women who will only date men with money and social status. A large number of (bitter, disappointed, heart-broken, and angry) men who have been sexually unsuccessful, use it as an excuse for misogyny because of their belief that MOST women (if not all) will gladly give up love, cheat on their man, or dump him in exchange for a man of higher social status.
This belief about women has become incredibly popular in recent years… which is frustratingly bad news for men, women, and society as a whole– because, not only are women who pursue hypergamy in this way vanishingly small in number, but it turns out that the OPPOSITE is true:
It is MEN who are obsessively hypergamous.
And as my friend from Europe observed many years ago, our culture has granted physical beauty the ultimate social status.
Models are superstars.
A man who dates a Victoria’s Secret model is “cooler” (has higher social status) than famous athletes, world leaders, or even billionaires… and he’s certainly cooler than a man who dates a Nobel-prize winning scientist.
It’s interesting to note that the highest status men (billionaires, world leaders, etc) are far more likely than other men to be comfortable dating ordinary looking women. They already have status.
It’s a difficult thing to NOTICE, much less to unwire, but if you are a single man reading this you might be able to reflect that (if you are like most men in our society), when you are talking to a woman socially, you might become aware that you are not only considering whether YOU feel physical attraction for her, but how dating her would play to your buddies.
Could you justify her level of looks and cool to your friends?
You might notice thinking about whether other men would consider you cooler or less cool if they saw you with her…
This is not exclusive to the men, of course… This internal conversation around what your friends and peers will think if you date this person and show up to a party with him/her is a universal piece of human nature.
If you catch yourself in the act, it’s a BIG OPPORTUNITY to grow into greater freedom, self expression, and true happiness, by shaking loose the shackles of cultural programming, listening to your body, and following only your own true heart.
The biggest problem is that when it comes to attraction most men are not able to see past the looks. While for women attraction consists of more things than just the appearance. And I don’t think that it is just biologically wired btw.
Maybe it happens because the cultural meme is that women are supposed to be more understanding and accepting. And maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing if men adopted some of those qualities.
But there is also a great scene about that in “Louie” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFdWcNJ17YY
YES! I love that scene and I was thinking about it when I wrote this post. Thank you for sharing!
I’ve never seen the show but I enjoyed the clip. I may have missed some of the nuances you’ve taken from it, however, because the girl is pretty much my type. For most of it I was thinking “what’s up with you, man, I’m hopeless and even I’d know to take hold of the woman and kiss the living daylights out of her”.
Yes man! Boom!
It’s true tho. I have a type and it’s the gym rat. I grew up looking at marvel comic book girls like she hulk and titania. Then onto muscle and fitness. That body speaks a volume of how hard they work how they value themselves and expect to be valued, in my mind at least. Fat turns nothing on in me. Skinny shapeless is just as non arousing. Women who work hard and get results physically turn me on. It also suggests that they will be that way in other areas of life as well. For me I like the practicality of loving gym rats. If they work hard in the gym then school career and love must be similar as well. Obviously it’s only a generalization but the odds defintely increase of getting all round awesomeness from a gym rat.
Looks are subjective.
I don’t find Victoria’s Secret models that attractive too skinny for me. But of course they are considered attractive.
People need to stop comparing themselves to people they see out on the street and on television. There is always someone who may look better, have more money, more power, etc. Who cares? Comparing yourself to another person doesn’t help you one bit.
I think people need to work on self compassion so they can stop beating themselves up over these things.
On T.V. I see nothing but above average people but in the real world I see average looking people. T.V. and Internet tend to warp our perceptions of beauty. Turn it off and go interact in the real world. Focus on people that are attracted to you.
Trust me you’ll have less headaches.
People are geniuses at finding reasons for beating themselves up.
I totally agree: Turn it off and go interact with the real world!
Alex, I am so impressed with your words. I do agree that there are different likes of the opposite sex for both men and women. Some men like boobs, some like butts, some are leg men. This is even true with women, some like tall and thin, or extra pounds, or bald. And we all must embrace these differences. There should be someone out there for everyone. I am a 62 year old curvy woman, with sort of the girl next door look. If it does not sound like I am tooting my own horn, I have always had men looking at me from high school to older gentlemen and all the ones in between. I was married 36 years. I am flattered that they are still looking. Also as a widow, I would like it more if they approached me. I have approached men, trying to talk, only to find them married. I have so much love in my heart, where is my next partner? Guess I got of task, but it truly is hard finding a good man. I don’t do the bar scene. I can count on 1 hand how many men I have been with – it’s not a full hand. Please, men if you think we are worth a chance, please approach us. There are so many lonely people out there, both men and women. Thank you.
Attracting the right soul is both the mystery and gift that we all have gently been imparted. The wisdom from some relationships that I certainly wished would have turned out differently have lead me to a clearer and singular understanding – Although the laws of attraction often times trigger a man or woman in different ways, the laws of attracting the right woman or man comes from knowing yourself deeply and committing yourself to your own core values.
I have seen both men and women dismiss or compromise those values through thoughts of social value gained or lost through a relationship. To me, this is the loss our society gives credence to diminish our strong masculine or feminine sides. in our most comfortable state, as a man or woman, we are truly happy and at peace. The relationship really brings in its most blessed form something that we cannot be by ourselves. Finding that peace in being with one’s self is a hard journey. In being still, its amazing how doors open and our paths cross with those that matter in life.
Taking that chance comes with that wonderful feeling that you value yourself, not in a selfish way, but in a healthy way. Once you live the life that matters to you, the magic of finding that person to share it comes often times in most uncanny way. Sometimes its the person on the train, sometimes its the hiker on the same trail, and sometimes its really the girl next door… I hope you find your soul mate. Finding the right person that wants to see life through your eyes is something you deserve…
Beautiful Omar! Next time I’m letting you write my blog post!
Thanks Betsy. I will definitely remember to approach the women I currently like. In fact, I talked to my favourite colleague today at work. I was a little nervous, but she was great. I love her even more now. LOL! Life is too short not to go after what you want, especially (in my case) beautiful women.
Good luck to you too…
Such a dynamic and many-faceted topic.
Read David Buss on evolutionary psychology and human sexual selection.
He highlights a cross cultural study that found that an overwhelming percentage of men chose a female “body type” whose main characteristic was a hip to waist ratio of 0.7 I believe. Allegedly the strongest cue to fertility.
That being said biology and psychology and sex and partnership and reproduction and survival instincts and social status and lifelong partnership are all separate things AND completely connected.
I think it’s most important to YESSSSS turn off the damn TV and internet and magazines and modern media and yes find and nurture a deep connection to oneself — because only then can one find a deep beautiful connection to another person.
Quick note here, and not calling out Mark above, but David Buss is considered a bit of a joke and “pseudoscience” by most credible scientists in his field. It’s important that we note that the preference of whatever ratio he is discussing is incredibly culture-specific, and even if taken as “average,” is unlikely to hold any water in the real world with real men and women.
I mainly mention this because he’s the darling for men trying to justify misogyny based on some of his other writings.
The funny thing that I consistently find with a lot of guys (myself included), is that OFTEN (definitely not always) the difficulty that a lot of men have talking to these ‘goddess’-type women isn’t as much to do with the hot-status-level difference, but the fact that these guys:
1. Have nothing in common with these girls (uber-hot 20y/o girls are still 20y/o girls after all)
2. They’re actually ignoring the gear-grinding lack-of-connection they have with these girls just so they can ‘fuck a hot girl’ (which leads to this weird dynamic that they wouldn’t otherwise tolerate if she wasn’t so ‘hot’)
Obviously this is only true in cases where there is an obvious ‘personality’ issue – there are plenty of attractive smart/funny/sexy/awesome girls too.
What I’ve continually found however, is that girls CAN indeed increase their own sexiness and attractiveness even if they aren’t ‘typically’ attractive.
We all know those few girls who maybe are a few pounds heavier than ‘acceptable’, but hold their figure, personality and being-in-the-world like such a motherfucking champion, that they turn just as many heads as a “10”
Obviously a ‘hot girl’ can get a lot of attention no matter her personality, however….
I’ve thought a lot about this recently – and I’m open to being completely fucking wrong – but I think the physically-attractive element for girls can often give THEM (the girl) permission to ‘be sexy.’
Really incredibly sexy, hot girls often hold themselves and act differently. And I think it’s because their attractiveness gave THEM the permission to exude sexuality.
I think girls who are average ‘looking’ can often struggle to give themselves permission to be sexy and to hold themselves sexy (“Who the fuck does she think she is thinking she can pull THAT off” – Cue mean glares from other women). I’ve met enough average ‘looking’ girls who turned me on more than any image of a typically ‘hot’ girl would, simply because they fucking exuded a sense of character, charm and sexuality.
Yes, all the ‘typical’ signs of success/attractiveness on both ends are still attracting attention. Ferraris, $40,000 watches, tits and asses. Lamborghinis are still badass and still turn my head no matter how ‘evolved’ I consider myself to be. So does a tight ass in yoga pants.
The ‘wave’ that David D and the ‘pickup’ movement created for men was a systematic destruction of assumptions and a rebuilding of the idea that men can be attractive to women by who they are.
I think this can be true for women too.
While women are still infinitely more judged on their looks than men are, I still think there is a shit-load that women can do within their own skin to become more attractive. And not just the typical ‘go to the gym and tone up’ stuff either.
The deep levels shame around sex, being a sexual person, being more assertive in who they are and what they want – etc etc.
I think that the general culture of ‘guys’ are just starting to grasp this too. I’m having more and more conversations with guys where they mention how ‘sexy’ a woman is even though the physical-signs aren’t necessarily all there.
I think the ‘Fappening’ – as horrible an intrusion of privacy as that was – helped prove this. The nude selfies taken by celebrities who are usually held up on the highest pedestals looked eerily similar to nude selfies by 80% of girls we might meet on the street.
Again. I probably made some broad generalizations that I may have to mop up in argument later, but I’m super inspired to see some women reclaim some of the real power that they seem to quickly give up to magazine covers and celebrity pin-ups
I like you, Dan! I’m single, a few pounds heavier than “acceptable,” hold my figure, have a comical personality and am a sexual being-in-the-world like a motherfucking champion! Want a Date?
Good stuff Dan. I like a man who mixes f-bombs with wise observations.
Well said. Some of the most attractive women I have met have been the intelligent, caring and funny ones – and their looks are much less important. 🙂
I am glad that I had the opportunity to read this excellent article on how society deals with the issue of beautiful women and dating. There is a lot of truth in it. However, I have loved beautiful women for over 50 years, even before I knew anything about how others viewed the issue. And now at the age of 65, as of today, I still seek out beautiful young women. And, they do cause me a lot of problems, but so far not enough problems to give up on them.
Unattractive women complain while at the same time they stuff their faces, won’t exercise, won’t put time into their wardrobe, makeup or hair. Every woman can have her very own special attractive look – it just takes commitment and work. I am attractive. It is putrid how dowdy women will resent my looks while they gobble pizza and I eat salad. If I were lazy and undisciplined I would be unattractive too.
The same for men – if you want to attract women, get off your butt and make something of yourself.
Also being attractive does not insure having a mate. It only increases the number of possibly suitable mates one will be exposed to. The world is full of homely married women and low status married men.
I think beauty and success are legitimately valued. However some people will wallow in envy and self pity rather than put any effort into being attractive to the opposite sex.
Thanks for taking the time to comment Marie. Though you have not requested any feedback here, I feel like it’s my responsibility as the owner of this blog to point out that everyone reading your words here is going to come away thinking: “why is this bitter woman so angry and unhappy in her life?”
It may be true that you are attractive. It may be true that you work hard for it. It may be true that wish you to educate others that they can be attractive through hard work.
There would have been a way to say that in a positive and uplifting manner if you cared about other people.
…But the message you have conveyed here is much more about YOU than about the world at large or those who “wallow in envy and self pity,” and your message is: “I have no compassion or connection with others who are not like me.”
I don’t think that is at all what you had intended to convey.
And while you may be angry with me right now for a perceived insult, I hope you’ll take an opportunity to re-read your words and spend at least a few moments trying to figure out how on Earth I could have come to this opinion. If you do that openly and honestly it might just illuminate something in your life in a very powerful way.
Great article! If we could all just get over ourselves and see people as human beings rather than some “thing” to impress others with OR to see the “person” beyond the physical appearance, there would be a whole lot more contented and a lot less lonely people in the world of relationships!
I am right now dating a girl who doesn’t quite meet the physical qualities i am mostly attracted to in a women. I am deeply attracted to who she is mentally and spiritually though. Maybe i’m a classic case of what you mention, but i just don’t know if i can have a future with this women if i can’t be attracted to her body in the way i can be with other women.
The main issue is sexually. We have great sex but it’s just not the same when i am not deeply horny and lusting for her body in the way i do with some other women. I am a highly sexual person so there is still that level of sexual lust for women in general i have with her.
I would much prefer to have a long term relationship though with someone who meets the physical attributes that deeply turn me on.
What do you think? Move on, or try and make her change her body, or try and change my perception?
It’s a tough one Brad, and in some ways quite tragic. I don’t think that it’s uncommon for people, both men and women, to fall in love with someone they are not really physically attracted to.
Sometimes the feelings of love mould and change our physical preferences, and sometimes not. I was in a relationship like that once and it was indeed a difficult dilemma.
At the bottom of this though is that you didn’t say: “I am in LOVE with…” and so really, at this stage, this might not be a very long term relationship anyway. You have the time and space to play the hand and decide each morning if the thought of being with her is greater than going forth with your freedom. You have a chance to listen to your mind, body, and heart and see where you are truly guided.
well, i had an interesting experience a few years ago. i was very atracted to 2 women, one was atractive in the universal way, all guys at work were very interested in her, including me. the other woman was very pretty too. but it was ovious she did not attract that much attencion. the funny thing, back then i was obsessed with the model like woman, despite the fact is that my type of woman, was the other one. funnily, now if i fantasise, its always about the (more avarage) not model like.
maybe if we really listen to our real desire, we could be surprised?
i wont say im not attracted to traditional beauty, actually maybe both girls shared some of those elements, but i usually dont find fashion model very attractive.(not all of them, i wont generalize) i think the very low body fat and lack of curves is the big no for me.
the thing is. if we keep healthy, in a reasonable bodyfat, (a natural, non eternal dieter one) work out a little, and go for the people we really like the results may be interesting.
I hate to admit it but Us Guys are so guilty of this. For me I’m a nerd, so I find anyone with similar interests attractive, for the most part I don’t care if ur skinny or fat tall short and stuff like that. I do see myself asking that question what would the guys think or my family. But I don’t let that dictate my decisions. It’s my life not theirs. Everyone has preferences and needs to learn not to body shame to fit in with a crowd or to impress friends
I just wanted to respond to let you know I enjoy reading your observations. It is no surprise that men seek a physically appealing mate. I’m sure you know the psychology involved with this. As the saying goes, “Take an ugly woman to be your bride and forever a bride she will be. Take a beautiful woman to be your wife and be weary of the eyes that follow her the rest of your life! As someone whom has been married to an absolute beauty in his youth. Whom was tragically taken by an accident. Then married a second time to an average looking bride. I have to admit. I found it was much much more satisfying and rewarding. To come home to beauty. Then it ever was to arrive home to the average looking wife. Now I applaud you effort to challenge your readers to see past the physical. So they might be rewarded by something wonderful. But your using your European friend as an example to illustrate your point. Misses, I believe what you are trying to teach. I’ve lived in Europe for many years as a university student. Then for my job as a journalist. Most European women are much more attractive, physically, compared to their U.S. competitors. Because of many different reasons. The amount of exercise they get because of the transportation system. The quality of their foods with the purity laws that exist in most Western European states. The amount of vacation time they receive. An average of four weeks. Or the forced matunaty leave they get. Two years, on average. So the citizens of most Western European states are on average, male and female much more fit and attractive when they are under fifty. But I value your effort to try and point out to your readers. That beauty is only skin deep. That real and lasting inner beauty is a much more appealing and valuable trait. Because once you’ve been married long enough. You will enjoy that persons company more. So play the long game. Because time is the greatest equalizer for us all. Forgive my long winded epilogue and please except my compliments for your mission statement. I commend you for the values you are trying to teach. For finally helping men to break free of Puritan societal mannerisms that have as I believe Mark Twain put it, “Most men live a life of quite desperation!” I think only when we can let go of the expectations forced upon us. Can we actually change our perceptions. Which I believe is what frees us to live the life that we design. As you, I believe have written. To become the bad asses we were all born to be! Thanks again and keep up the great work.
Hey Robert, as an American, I feel that it is my duty to tell you that American women are way hotter than European women– except for Russia, of course, where they have the most perfect women in the world (disclaimer: my wife is Russian).
That said, I’m not really challenging my readers to look past physical beauty here. I admire those who do, but I also think that being powerfully physically attracted to your mate is a wonderful (if not fundamental) thing.
The question is: what triggers your physical attraction? Sometimes it is different than the cliche of societally accepted standards of beauty. Sometimes it does bubble forth from heart, spirit, and personality. Sometimes it is our own particular and odd preferences. And sometimes, of course, it looks just like the cliche of societally accepted standards of beauty.
You are an amazing one…im 48 and have men tell me I just have something glowing out of me although when I was younger my body was perfect, I have more professional responsibilities that dont allow me to spend hours on myself and I’m genuinely into learning, etc etc…but the charm dial im just starting to get somehow I got it…I just need to learn how to use it to the way I would lover for that gem of a man…you will too get your gem
this was an extremely thoughtful, level-headed piece on a very controversial subject.
As I’ve gotten older, I’ve begun to distinguish between sexiness and radiance. Sexiness is the outward beauty that you discuss in this piece. It begins to fade as a woman ages. Radiance is an outward expression of an internal state. It’s hard to describe exactly, but it’s a glow, a self-love or a love of life that comes out through the eyes and sometimes the skin also. Radiance only increases with age. It’s almost as if, as the outer beauty slips away, the inner glow is thrown into starker relief. Men would do well to notice it.
I know someone who is going to be very popular with the ladies… 😉
Indeed. Well stated, Jeff. That really seems to separate women as they mature and develop all along the spectrum from gloriously radiant to those who do not, to put it kindly, remain so positive. And it’s not exactly gender-specific: there is a masculine counterpart to this we men can develop, too.
Jeff, I also agree with your thoughts on this topic. Frank, you make a good point as well. This is just not connected to women. Thank you both.
I was always the wiry, exuberant, smart, somewhat intense guy. Never the varsity athlete, but more part of the intellectual and political intense crowd. I found that a lot of attractive women were attracted to me, but my intensity was too much for most except the most intellectual. At business school, I was in an element where there were plenty of good looking women, and some of the women on campus were also intelligent and intense. Nirvana!
But after a career on Wall St. where intensity was sometimes a virtue, and where meeting attractive women was not hard, but meeting socially conscious women on Wall St was, I learned a few things.
To attract attractive women regularly, it helps to have a few things: moderately good looks; an ability to talk and listen and to not let one’s intensity drive the conversation or relationship; higher status; and time. (The last item is very precious and scarce!)
There are a few other things. Most attractive women are in a one-on-one relationship at any given time. Some of them are “poachable”, but to take advantage of that requires some special skills, and for the average casual encounter, the number of “available” women (who aren’t unavailable due to the pain of a recent breakup) probably is about 10-15%. And their time between relationships is shorter than for average women, and their tolerance of certain turn-offs is shallower because of the law of supply and demand.
That said, there have been plenty of good-looking, quality women around, and a man’s good grooming, moderate social confidence, and playful sense of humor and good manners goes a long way to meet them.
Excellent post, and I don’t even see what would be controversial about it. Brings to mind a woman I often encountered some years ago who is not conventionally attractive, but turned me (and a lot of other men, undoubtedly) on like nobody’s business. She just had a verve and energy about her, while still being quite feminine.
Neither of us were both “available” at the same time, so I never considered dating her, but she illustrated the gist of this post very well.
Come to think of it, I really don’t have a “type,” as such. Aside from a few traits I consistently find attractive (such as intelligence, wit, creativity, and soft skin), there is little rhyme or reason to who turns me on the most, and I’m glad about that.
Thank for this great article. You mentioned “I could write a book on the difficult issues and challenges it raises for the woman (or even young girl) who possesses remarkable physical beauty”. I would like for you to write that book – or at least one of your blog posts. It would help men as they try to meet and connect with women they’re attracted to. But also, if men understood what it’s like for attractive women to receive the attention they do, then men may feel compassion for women and see each woman as a whole person (ie not just their physical beauty).
I would much rather date a plain or average woman whom I like than a gorgeous woman I don’t. Physical attractiveness alone will never be a strong enough foundation on which to build a meaningful relationship.
In fact in some ways I think I’d prefer to start with an average or what I may term a slightly pretty woman. Over the years I have noticed that when on first meeting a woman she strikes me as exceptional and I’m thinking “Jeeezzuzzz, she is stunning”, the effect seems to wear off as time goes by. She’s still gorgeous, but one gets used to it and there isn’t the same impact any more. Indeed sometimes one may even begin to notice a few things one would prefer to be a little different about her.
Conversely, with an average looking woman the effect over time can often be that one starts to take note of aspects of her that are more attractive than one first realized. Familiarity brings increased appreciation rather than acceptance of the norm.
These observations are based on women I’ve met generally, not girlfriends or even women I’ve tried to make girlfriends. The comments refer to their facial attractiveness only. They could have been co-workers or they may have been behind the counter in a shop I visited often, or whatever. And of those I got to know better I liked them equally personality-wise, it wasn’t that I got to dislike a stunning woman and like an average one.
In recent years, since I became aware of how this effect works, I have given myself more time to take a look at women on first encountering them, in whatever situation, and I have discovered that with a little dispassionate consideration I can find attractive features in most women’s faces. It has convinced me that if I can allow myself to truly feel from within and disregard external influences in more areas of my life and my interactions with others, female and male, I will be a better person for those people to be around, which will in turn yield rewards for me also.
Great observations my friend.
Dennis Rodman (who I don’t think anyone around here is trying to be like – other than maybe his ability to dunk balls in hoops), once famously said (while dating Carman Elektra): “You show me a beautiful woman, and I’ll show you a guy who bored with f**king her.”
Crass, I know, and certainly NOT universally true for those whose relationships are prioritized by more than just novelty attraction… but yet we all recognize the seed of truth in it. As men, our fascination with beauty for a woman we are sexing is frustratingly fleeting if there is nothing else to the relationship.
I love the comment about a women’s “radiance”.
I use to be a model when I was younger. But I got tired of how thin they wanted me to be.
But this article is interesting. I’m trying to figure out how to say this correctly. Sometimes it is hard to walk into a room and be the center of attention. And have all eyes on me. I don’t see what others see. I was taught my my mother that my looks weren’t important. And that I had to be a good
person on the inside. Pretty is as pretty does, she
would say. Because of all of the attention they I have always gotten, I have become sort of shy. I don’t know how to handle all of the men who hit on me. Sometimes it feels like I’m a trophy deer. Lol I’m very approachable. And I’m easy
going. But it would be nice if men were more interested in who I am as a person than just wanting me as a trophy. But I’m not really complaining. I do like it that men run to open my doors and bend over backwards for me.;)
But I like what Omar said the most. I want to be loved for me and want a deeper love and understanding. My beauty will fade. But I don’t really care. I’ve got my inner “radiance” ;))
Your mama done good! It takes a lot of good parenting to give a pretty girl internal self-esteem. They get so much validation and attention from everyone for their appearance that it can lead them to feel unworthy on the inside (same thing with people who inherit big piles of money– they begin to feel that everyone likes them for something they had very little to do with).
The other thing you mention that many very attractive women get crushed beneath is the lack of privacy in public: You are ALWAYS being watched. A cover-girl friend of mine once said to me, “I can’t pick my nose in traffic because everyone in the cars to the left and right of me are staring at me.”
Some people get paranoid when they are smoking pot and feel like everyone’s watching them, and it’s very upsetting for them. For an exceptionally beautiful woman, it’s just reality. Everywhere you look there are men gazing at you with disturbing intensity.
Looks like you handle it more gracefully than most.
Marie, so well said. Inner radiance. What an amazing couple words. I appreciate your comments. Thanks.
Yes!! I am what society considers “attractive” and it has its own set of problems. All my life I have wondered what all the fuss is about. I see curvy women and wish I looked like them. I am tired of being looked at with suspicion and jealousy by women , and tired of being pursued by men who are only attracted by how I look. I actually tried online dating, only to find that men contacted me because of my picture, most of them not reading my profile first. Ugh. The quality of interaction improved when I put an unattractive selfie up!
We all want to be valued and loved for who we are, beyond looks.
I do consider a woman’s physical beauty to be a very important part of whether or not I’d want to be with her. Especially since I am a guy who wants hook ups and fwbs. Now saying that, there are indeed trashy girls that may look incredible, yet can still be a turn off at times. However the initial attraction is there and can be undone, by a sour attitude, manly demeanour (a little tomboy can be cute though), ugly personality, and an unyielding sense of entitlement among other things.
Now I know some people may think that well since I’m not interested in pursuing a relationship that of course looks are the only thing that could ever matter to me. However I do want to meet woman that are interesting to talk to and fun to be around. A friendship can cone from situations like this (although not sure how often), and it is because I found the way she looked initially to be what made want to get to know her in the first place. A girl can have the sweetest personality, is fun and fierce (in and out of the bedroom), and has a great depth to her, but if she doesn’t look good then that’s a friend clean and simple. How lucky are we though that there are woman that have those qualties and are bombshells?
This isn’t to say that I don’t talk with less attractive women by any means, but when it comes to what I’m looking for I wouldn’t want to be with less attractive women. How much of that can be attributed to the media instead of biological factors I’m not sure, but I do find fit, slim, curvaceous, healthy woman attractive. And I also wouldn’t say I have one type that I live and die by and I’m there are other men like that to. From slender and model esque (not too skinny) to curvy (curves in the right places) to really fit (not body builders though).
Now this can also apply to us guys as in what women want. Could I blame a woman that would look past me for a guy with more money, more friends, a great job and is in much better shaoe than me? Hell no. I believe its what those things indicate about a man that draws women in. Do I get upset and curse those guy’s very name? Not at all. I have to mimic their behavior and beliefs in order to be with the highest quality women. Play the cards I am delt with to their most maximum potential. I can carry myself better, be more and ambitious and bold while being compassionate and strong when need be among other things.
Didnt think I would go on for as long as I did, but I am thankful that you brought up, yet again, another great topic Alex.
Thanks a lot for writing this, my mind had a good workout when reflecting on this in honest way with myself.
One thing I noticed, I used to have a hot girlfriend who was (and perhaps still is) a model. Now I have a beautiful girlfriend but who does not have a body of a model. Funny thing, when I went out with my previous girlfriend, I was very self conscious of what my friends would think (even kind of embarrassed); now with my girlfriend I really appreciate her beauty and feel proud to present her to anyone I meet and to show how great she is.
I have to admit I was way younger, so I have went through a lot of maturing and self improvement, but still I find it a quite interesting paradox.
All the best.
What is a pretty woman ? Even if the majority thinks a woman is pretty, this is just a point of view like people thougt that sun was rotating around the earth before gallileo proved it was otherwise. Moreover, most men and women accept the definition of “pretty” given to them by others without having their own opinion on the subject : this is childish, this is the same way a kid believes his parent’s world view. But the kid becomes an adult when his has his own world view. So I believe that when a woman is considered to be pretty by everyone, it is childish as if everyone is a kid who has been hypnotized/convinced by a parent who is society/magazines/advertisement standards of prettyness.
The idea of adults being kids is not just for explanation. It is true. When a toddler grows until he reaches the age of 25 like a young adult, for example, he becomes bigger because his cells have multiplied by fission but his mind did not necessarily grow up with the same speed . So it has not necessarily an adult mind and behaviours which means the unlearning of the societal bunch of crap in order to learn healthy beliefs and attitude. So it is obvious that most adult have the mind and attitudes of children.
The relationship with pretty girls ? The kid is immature and will think pretty girls have special powers, features, taste, etc… the halo effect. Instaed of asking for what he wants in a clear and direct ways he will hold back and use gifts to buy some scrap of attention. The adult know that the pretty girl is a girl after all and is attracted by a character, a healthyness and he knows to read between the lines in order to spot healthyness versus PTSD that many pretty face have. Most men do not know that 1 pretty girl out 3 has been sexually assaulted before the age of 18 mostly in her family and the leaves her with an internalized hatred of men and PTSD that makes them bad relationship material with awfull moody attitudes that some men will accept as the price to pay to enjoy their prettyness.
So the idea of having a girl friend is not a destination. It is just a trigger for man to start his journey of self discovery, of clearing most of the societal crap within, in order to become a fully integrated adult and attract naturally the woman/women who will bless his life the way his bless hers.
Personally I think a lot of it has to do with the man as well.
Why do we struggle to talk to the hot chick? Lack of some confidence maybe?
First of all I know and understand the whole social status thing. Heck, I even played with it multiple times dating sexy flight attendants, models and other hotties. But what I learned along the way is that they look at us as well in a certain way… And their life becomes a lot easier, socially speaking, when they can portray you as being superb. Good looking, successfull, intelligent… That’s inportant during the dating period where you need to get accepted in the social circle. It’s much less relevant in the long run. If you believe yourself you can offer her that, or whatever else she may be looking for, your confidence will increase and her attraction to you as well.
To get there, you first need to get to talk to her and looking good helps, but being a genuine honest talker does even more.
Now this whole social status thing can be very dangerous to relationships as well. Some women, and I’m sure men as well, will continue this social status thing well into the relationship and use it to create stress and damage.
If the relationship turns into a race or a show to be the one of higher social status, after you are married, meaning you wanted to marry anove your social status to then try and reverse the status difference, then the relationship will turn toxic.
But for getting the girl, there are a lot of ways to show as if you’re of higher status.
Back in 2008, I had some good looking friends, it was known I was succesfull, had a place on the water, boat, jetski out the back and a very fancy sports car. Life was great indeed. I was at multiple times asked to drive home very sexy good looking women. A few offered for me to come in, BUT, I hardly ever did. I did this because I am a nice guy, without knowing the effect it had, which was that women started thinking they couldn’t get me. So for their social circle I would be a very acceptable catch, above their own level. In that period of my life, there was no issue talking, flirting or even touching a woman.
All this to say, the social status game is dangerous as well as effective, if you understand it. It’s simply psychology and if you believe in yourself, others will start to believe in you too and noe you’re off to talk to that girl… If she’s not interested, her loss, you’re great, move on to the next hottie. Just stay genuine though, no woman likes a liar.
Hey Alex, I’ve been told that I can be intimidating to other women and even men. However, I feel average and I have always seen my flaws. As I get older (I am 43 now), I am trying to overcome the low self-esteem that I’ve always struggled with. I have come to realize that confidence brings about a certain attractiveness to an individual. As you mentioned, external beauty is only one thing that attracts people to each other and as we all know that is going to fade away or change as we age or as life circumstances happen. As a society, we need to broaden the definition on what true beauty is. Thank you for your insight:)
Wow, that was something to think about and I recognised a few things about myself that I’m not too proud of. Yes I’ll admit I do wonder how my friends will react though I hopefully don’t make decisions based on that.
I believe also that in the end physical beauty will not be enough. You have to like the person beneath the skin.
Thanks for the insight; maybe I learned something today.
I appreciate your insights.
Now none of this is to say we (me being a guy) can’t genuinely desire physically attractive women. I find it to be more biological than cultural, however in both cases relying on either or seems to take away any real choice. I don’t blame society for wanting physically attractive women and I find that to be fine. Knowing that I find I am more understanding of women wanting men of high status, character, and rich personality, things I still have to work on.
I don’t believe it would be fair of me to criticize a woman lookinh for those things (among other things) in a man, when I want physically attractive as well. For me personally it’s not just a woman’s physical beauty that I like, but I am also attracted to the hard work that one must put into maintaining a body like that. Its not easy and takes dedication, focus and understanding of nutrition and many other health habits to keep that up. I also have a range of body types I like, so it isn’t just one particular look. I love a cute face, slim waist and feminine curves that accentuate that. I could go slim and slender or a bit curvier, yet not grossly overweight and all in between.
I do enjoy a bright smile, flirty humor, feminine mannerisms, and a innocent, yet naughty behavior, wit and moxy along with an incredible body. With all the said, I definitely don’t believe I am at a point in my developement where I deserve women like that yet. I am not the man women like that would want currently, yet with the notion of never settling, I probably would be alone for a while before that happens. Would there be women that are average or less than in terms of looks that provide the non physical aspects I find hot in a women? Yes, and yet if I am not attracted to her physically I wouldn’t be that happy as well. I don’t feel shackled by that though and view it as a goal become that man hot women desire.
Now you mentioned that men who are high status and are where they want to be in life would be more willing to be with an average woman than the models, actresses, female athletes, and exotic dancers of the world. While there is no denying that is true, guys like Jason Capital are are ever growing in status, yet would never settle for average. However he loves those kind of women not solely for their looks, but how they can entertain him, invest in themselves, take action towards what they desire, their curiousity, and bj skills among other things.
I gotta say this was a great topic and I didn’t expect to have so much to say, but this helps solidify what I desire and the truth of not being manipulated into it, while also reminding me I have to be the kind of manwho attracts, seduces and pleasures women like that. Deserve what you want as Scott McKay says and it just rings ever more true.
Hey Lee, since you bring up a couple of my colleagues, I can’t help but add something here and teach a little “master class” on this…
I love Jason Capital, he’s hilarious, always optimistic with his readers, and a lot of fun to hang out with. And while many PUA types teach how to fake social status through the way they “walk and talk” in order to trick women’s biological radar into wanting their approval (and perhaps ultimately sex), Jason really tries to teach the mental process behind confidence and status so that you can also fool YOURSELF into performing better in life and hopefully lead a happier and more fulfilled life of “action taking.” I’ve recommended him to many a 20-something lonely guy.
However… the idea that Jason has any actual social status is dubious. He’s got “club status,” because he’s confident and easeful being playful with beautiful women. But his status is continuously propped up by the response of those beautiful women. He needs to keep playing that game so that men who are stuck inside of that same social matrix (his readers, for example), keep feeding him status: He’s kissing that beautiful girl, therefore he must be awesome!
That’s conditional status. Conditional on him continuing to win that game that our social structure thinks is important. But as much fun as Jason is to hang out with, there are plenty of dinner parties that I simply couldn’t invite him to because people with more universal status would find his status-seeking games annoying and insecure.
Now, of course, even universal status is societally given, but it does cease to be a conversation and allow for more authentic, vulnerable, and incisive relating.
And here’s the important bit: When you play the status game YOU DON’T GET ALL THE WOMEN. You only get the women who feel the need to date a man with status so that they can feel better about themselves.
In other words: these status-seeking folks find each other. And they may even LOVE each other… but because they have this status=attraction formula baked into their relationship DNA it is rarely durable, and they are constantly feeling like they have to put on a show for each other. They develop insecurities that begin to crumble the walls of their relationship, which in turn messes with their feelings of self-esteem and general happiness with life.
There are a ton of beautiful, intelligent, emotionally mature, fun, and generous women that would have nothing to do with that particular kind of “status charm.” I’ve introduced a few of them to Jason, and they were flummoxed when I told them that there are many women that go crazy for him.
I still love the guy, and I think there is zero wrong with him being exactly who he is in his 20s. He’s having a blast! But he will need to graduate to a different internal space if the time comes when he wants something deeper (and my money is on Jason to succeed in making that jump when the time comes).
I think Scott McKay is a great guy too, and “deserve what you want,” is a fantastic thing to teach men, and most men need to hear it.
But it’s still training wheels, because ultimately what I wish upon all men is the deep understanding in their bones that they don’t need to BE or DO anything to deserve love. And it’s not until you can vanish that final sense of needing to become someone who deserves her that you can settle into the depth of True Love.
I am her
Wow I love reading your work Alex, however this throws me…Im considered well above average in looks and although not a super model couldn’t disagree with you more…I feel like men are constantly jumping to get your attention…however never consider you as a one thing serious which just isn’t fair, then find out I have a way above average IQ and there you go again oh no scary! can’t give her a chance…she might leave me although every signal you send out his he is the only one for you…you havnt analyzed it all and unfortunately great looking people live with social stigmas is personal and professional negative ways that average people f onto get bothered we ith…gosh I wish it was as easy as you wrote about Alex, however it just simply is NOT THE CASE!
Thanks for the feedback Tamara. Though I’m not sure I said it was easy! This article just looks at one aspect of the infinitely complex dance of human courtship.
Alex, Thank you for writing this blog post. I consider myself a late bloomer, only recently learning that I want to be a health and money coach (along with a few other things). I have read many of the comments here for this post alone, and I have been amazed at how balanced and diverse the comments are.
Even more so with your consistent reply to most of the people here. I intend to be a better version of myself and learning to focus on improving at my own pace and improve on certain qualities that I personally want to improve on; not seeking outside approval nor suffering from “compare-itis”.
Going through these changes doesn’t feel easy, even for the simple changes. I have been improving my drawing skills gradually, improved my task-focus, and also gotten way better at budgeting and moving to be debt free.
Those three things may not seem much to others, yet it is those three simple things that are improving my confidence everyday I do them.
Right on Jonathan! Brother, you vastly underestimate how many people would chew off their own arm to figure out how to improve their task-focus or get out of debt… and how much relief and happiness could be spread in the world if men had a path for becoming free of “compare-itis.”
You are on the path to personal greatness, my friend, and I hope people read your comment and feel the surge of inspiration from your words that I do.
When I was young, it didn’t seem as though I had a type. I tried them all. Every quality seemed to have a downside. Some of my guy friends stayed with a girlfriend they really didn’t like because their friends thought she was hot. Never could understand why anyone would do that. Over the years, I gradually realized I was looking in the wrong place. What was missing in my life I had to find within me. When I looked closely, I detected an ‘ego’ rush when I would find myself in a new relationship. That is a problem. Realizing that a woman can’t validate a man is one thing. Working through that, validating myself, is the challenge. I had to quit what had become a game. I became the best man I could be, for no other reason than finding the truth of me. I became full in ways I had been obliviously empty. As that became reality, I found my type. What a woman looks like does nothing but catch my attention. I stopped looking and began to see. It turns out, my type is femininity, which I see as embodying great strength. A strength different than mine, not less or more. My type is a woman who has embraced her femininity, not at war with herself. It turns out I had been at war with myself too, defining myself as what others considered a man to be. When I stepped out of that invisible battle, it turns out I was a good man all along. I just didn’t know it. Chasing after a type is a fool’s pursuit. When a wolf chases a rabbit, the rabbit has reason to run. Finding your true self, the goodness within, changes the world. Good is drawn to good. Bad is drawn to bad. Empty is drawn to empty. Full is drawn to full. That advice to ‘just be yourself’ seemed so wrong, but in the end, it was true. You just have to find yourself first. You can’t act good. Good is not something you do. Find goodness within you and set it free. When you do, your type will come to you, and it will probably be a surprise. There’s nothing to chase. Nothing to run to, or from. You will stop looking, and begin to see clearly. And you find yourself in a world filled with beauty and grace. Then you know what love is, full and overflowing. There is no emptiness to fill. Chasing after ‘type’ is to chase after missing pieces. It’s running away from yourself. That’s a road that always ends up going over the cliff. There is no shortage of cliffs in the world. When you can spend the rest of your days alone, and still have a smile on your face and love in your heart, that is when you are ready to love someone. It seems impossible, but that’s the emptiness talking. The truth is that it is as easy as breathing. Emptiness screams and yells until it dies.
I am a naturally physical attractive woman with a high IQ. I was raised in a traditional conservative family and taught to value character over everything.
This made it extremely hard to date. No one offered what I did in terms of character. People thought I was being picky and unreasonable. So many people were surprised when I dated my first boyfriend (& eventually, ex-fiance) because they thought he was ugly. I found that offensive on two levels: they thought he was ugly, and I shallow! Even today, I rarely date good looking men, but it’s so nice when looks, intelligence and character marry in a person! I rarely date wealthy guys either, for those who love to throw the “hypergamy” word around, yet wouldn’t date an ugly woman, ugh.
I am now nearing my mid 30’s, and 20 year old me would never believe my current life situation. I thought I’d be married with kids, or the ticking clock would scare me into marrying a loser. Nothing could be farther from the case. I’m MORE picky! Delighted to be single! I realised that I’m happier alone than with any partner so far! Deep down I’m a closeted wild romantic, but practicality is #1 in my life and compatibility is #1 in my relationships.
I also have a lifetime of finding ways to minimise my beauty. When I was a teenager, I had to stop wearing makeup because it would cause both women and men to treat me horribly – women out of jealousy, men out of objectification. I loved funky clothes and being fit though. Now… I am happy I am a few years older and a few pounds heavier, with more practical and comfortable clothing due to my frequent travelling… Although I’d like to be attractive and pull men around my weight (the few out there), I can be treated more as an ordinary person now. Until they get to know me lol (I’m a unique thinker and my career and life journey is quite avant-garde).
I have known many men to be alone and bitter because they only try for young, hot women when they themselves have nothing to recommend themselves. I try to explain to them, if she can choose anyone, why would she choose you? If you don’t know, how can she expect to? (Even if you’re of and fat and broke, like one such friend, but she has everything and you can offer her love, great company and protection, that’s an acceptable answer. But you have to know what you can offer to project it, and not get pissy if it’s not what they’re looking for.)
I’ve pretty much given up on dating. In my 20’s, outside the years I was dating my ex, people would say “I can’t believe you’re still single!” And not seem to realise that I want things out of a relationship more than an objectifying dude who wants sex lol. Guys would say “you’re prefect for me!” but not realise that there was nothing perfect about them for me. ‘Hello, don’t I get a say in this?’ Was my frequent frustration.
Good thing I have a lot of passions, dreams and hobbies. I have a very full life and good friends, and neither need nor want the things I was traditionally raised to (marriage & kids). The world has changed, and so have the people in it. We are simply culturally incompatible. I can’t see one person making me happy for the rest of my life. Unless I find a male version of me! (Ambition, work ethic, well rounded intellectually and politically, philanthropic, good morals, decent enough looking, unique thinking and approach to life, creative, fun, likes to travel. Financially comfortable would be a nice minimum, especially by a certain age.) You think this wouldn’t be so hard to find… They’re out there, but rare. Maybe if I achieve my dreams I will get into circles with more people like me. I’ll be 80 by then though lol!
Yep… I hear this story from a lot of attractive women, many of them my friends. The good men ARE out there, but so many of the young men are getting brain-washed by the shouting misogynists, and they all think they have to put on an act… Then a high quality woman like you who would be their DREAM gets put off because you don’t want to have to deal with their little-boy mentality and insulting “act”.
I hope you do meet the right man– not because you need him, but because Love is great, and the world needs more role-model couples.
To be honest, after reading this article, I’m not sure how much I agree with it. I am of the opinion that both men and women are hypergamous but I’ve seen a lot more of it come out of women. The thing is though, when the subject of hypergamy comes up, I often seen in different contexts from the same people that “If [the other side] is allowed to like what they like, then so can I” then “If I’m not allowed to like what I like then neither are you,” depending on the gender of the person and the person in question being gawked at. Now, I’m not sure I align with either point of view but, because these two perspectives are coming from basically everybody, it’s hard to know which group of people is demonstrating it more. I noticed in my own life that I’ve never been good enough for anyone around me, so I recognize that a bias may incline me toward thinking it’s more common in women than men.
In addition, I don’t believe the United States raised the standards of beauty in the world to being a icon of social status, just what the specifics of that icon would be. Historically speaking, there were certain icons prior to the founding of the United States that were notable for their physical appearances. Cleopatra is the original icon I believe of a female ruler who got away with a lot due to her beauty and desirability of her subjects. However, historically speaking, if Cleopatra were taken out of her era and moved into modern times, she would not be seen as particularly attractive due to the hygiene standards of the time. In addition, Andromeda, though I’m not certain ever truly existed, was taken to be eaten by a large serpent due to everyone claiming that her beauty exceeded divinity, which upset the Goddess Hera and required Perseus to rescue her. However, because this is a legend of Greek Mythology, nobody who could’ve been present for those events is alive to be able to tell us if something like that did happen and the real events were embellished or if it was just a story in general. And because statues of Greek Mythological figures never truly resembled anyone who could’ve lived in Greece at that time, it’s unclear what this kind of person would’ve looked like. Because of that, standards for beauty have always existed and have always driven people beyond the point of insanity, it’s just that modern standards happen to be quite different. While it is true that American do value physical appearance probably a bit more excessively than many other cultures did historically, even the Grimm Fairytales of Germanic origin would have a beautiful man or beautiful woman as a reward for those figures who had good character, such as the youngest daughter of a poor man who promised to marry a beautiful prince that she didn’t know was beautiful at the time because he was wearing a fur coat that he was never allowed to take off and didn’t shower or shave for an entire year preceding the event because he paid her father’s debts in the story Bearskin. I recommend you read it, it’s pretty dark but it lends some insight into what would’ve been valued in that culture from around that time, same for the other fairytales by the Brothers Grimm.
Finally, while I understand that this article is addressed to the beauty standards set for women in relating to attracting men, I do not like the implication it comes with that the reverse somehow isn’t true. Again, I may be biased because everybody around me has always hated me regardless, but it always seems like the women I interact with tend to have standards for men that men typically don’t for women. While yes I do see men who have things in women that they do not want to go without, I’ve seen at least online plenty of women who will not date any man who is missing any of the following traits, those being an adonis body, 6 figure income, incredible sexual skills, a willingness to sacrifice himself for basically any task she wants, and sometimes requesting that he have no demands for her at all. While I understand some women wanting some of these things depending on what point in their life they are (the adonis body only for hook-ups, or the income for a financially stable marriage, etc.) the problem isn’t that these traits aren’t good, just that many women I tend to see making comments on the topic will not date any man who has even one of those traits absent.
Even saying that the number of women with such expectations is “vanishingly small” doesn’t really help the conversation, firstly because the possibility exists that you are incorrect. Not to say that I’m the one you should trust, just that there’s no real way you could possibly verify such a claim. And secondly because, depending on what qualifies as vanishingly small, something of that quality among 3.5 billion women could still number in the hundreds of thousands. Even restricted to my home city which features 6 million people, even if only 2 million of those citizens are women, a “vanishingly small” number of them could be 500 total women. Keeping in mind that people’s brains only have enough capacity in terms of memorization and emotional connection for about 150 people total, even if it’s entirely unlikely, it’s still possible that you could run into only those 500 women and not any of the other women in the world and give up on dating entirely because of the 150 people you have to work with all 150 demand absolute perfection, making a failure rate a grand total of 100%.
What I’m getting at here is that perspective does matter and statistics stop mattering once the event happens to you. If statistically, running into abusive or harmful women is entirely unlikely but you run into one or 6 anyway, does that likelihood continue to matter? What about the reverse. If it’s incredibly unlikely for you to actually meet high quality women yet you only ever manage to meet and date high quality women, then why would you care what the likelihood is at that point?
I talked for way longer than I wanted to. Even when I want to say something really quickly, I end up having a metric fuck-ton of things to say in ONE COMMENT. Have a wonderful day.
Hey Dominick, here’s the situation:
Let’s get rid of “vanishingly small,” because, yeah, I can’t prove that.
Let’s get to just brass tacks here. My friend Sean Stepheson is 2.5 feet tall, he’s got some serious disfigurement, and he’s not rich. He IS very smart, very funny, and very compassionate, and he has dated a ton of fantastic women, many of them beautiful. His wife, Mindy, is very smart, very compassionate, and very beautiful (though not really very funny, lol).
I bring up Sean just because he’s such an easy case study, but the fact is, you can do your own “field work” and start talking to married women that you think are gorgeous and ask about their husbands, or go see them for yourself. It’s just a fact that only a normal percentage of them will be gorgeous or rich. Some will, some won’t.
When I look at my own life, or the lives my “normal looking” broke friends, and I see them getting all the attention they want from women, I have to ask why their experience is completely different from yours.
My perspective is that, mathematically, the likely reason is not the hundreds of women you encounter each year, but the ONE YOU that is the issue. And after working with a ton of guys like you, I can predict with some reasonable accuracy that the problem is “projection”. It’s not that girls don’t want to be with you romantically… it’s that “if you were a girl, you wouldn’t want to be with you romantically,” so you “project” that on them, and you say and do things that disqualify yourself.
I would like to make one amendment to your assessment of me. While projection may be a part of it, the reason that I don’t think anyone finds me valuable is because people have told me that flat out for basically the entirety of my life. Many people with Asperger Syndrome deal with this but, in my case, when everybody goes out of your way to physically harm you, start rumors about you, or just tell you to kill yourself, and then those behaviors in those people only completely stop after the diagnosis where your educational institution HAS to do something about it, it may lead you to believe that they’re all still thinking it even if they never say it. Yes, I agree that I am the problem here, my lack of value is the reason people don’t see good in me, but that acknowledgement simply isn’t a solution by itself.
Other than that, I have no counter arguments. What you said was pretty air-tight.
Hey Dominick, I’m not expert on YOUR life, and I don’t want to over-step too deeply into presumption here… but a few things worth noting that I think you should at least consider in terms of freeing up some mental elbow room.
1) You didn’t mention Aspergers… obviously that comes with own challenges, and a ton of specific trainings, helpful methodologies, and little tricks that can be extremely helpful (and which I am no expert on), but…
2) Consider that one of the foundational issues you have with Aspergers is not reading people correctly, so you may be wildly misreading tacit agreement in bystanders when asshole bullies are saying stupid shit. And make no mistake…
3) You are being BULLIED. Bullies are, by definition, INSECURE ASSHOLES who are using anyone “different” to deal with their own deep self hatred. I didn’t make that up. It’s pretty well established. And sound’s like you might a bit different, and what you need to wrap your head around is that the people telling you these things, are themselves, probably more self-hating than you could easily imagine. If you really dig deep into this, and you force yourself not to turn away when it feels scary (like when you might have to give up one of your core beliefs about LIFE and REALITY – this idea that people don’t like you, so no point in trying), then you will reach something very powerful.
4) A close friend of mine has a daughter who is, seriously, adorable, charming, absolutely great kid. Everyone loves her… but somehow, for some crazy random reason, some asshole girl decided SHE WAS THE ONE and started bullying her, and because this asshole has social power (probably based on fear), and because this little girl was truly taken off guard and crushed by the unfamiliar onset of people being mean to her, the entire school seemed to have turned against her and decided that she was the school loser. CRAZY! AND FUCKING INFURIATING! You can imagine what her mom (my good friend) is going through. They are talking about moving her to another school, they’re consulting therapists… but brother, this was as random as being the one who got hit by fly ball in the stands at a baseball game.
5) The whacky thing about projection is that it can create the conditional reality that was not pre-exiting… meaning, if a man is jealous enough of his faithful wife, she is going to find a man who is not so fucking insecure and damn-well cheat on him. Eventually she figures out that denying it is never going to win. People who make an assumption that you don’t like them act a certain way… and it’s very unlikeable!
Imagine there was this super sweet person who really likes you… it’s hard not to like that person back! Now imagine the bully who told you should kill yourself. Do you like him much? You can kind of see that if you go out into the world believing the bully is right (and having weak reference to them being wrong because of Aspergers), you could quite easily be creating this reality.
I am not blowing smoke up your ass and saying that the road back from this kind of thing is EASY. I’m saying it’s possible. And I’m saying, you’ve got 85 or so years to spend here on Earth… and I can’t really think of something better for you to do with your time, focus, energy, and attention then do the work to BEAT THIS.
Alex, you are not blameless in this stereotyping. Every time you shill for the product(s) of one of your buddies, you include a note about what a smoking hot wife or girlfriend he has or how many models he has dated.
Hey Gary, TOTALLY not blameless here. That’s pretty much what I say at the beginning of the post. But the situation is that I don’t live in a Utopian society where we can all just sit around the camp fire and sing “kumbaya” together.
I have helped thousands of people live better lives, as has Christian Hudson who I “shill” for… but there is no way to reach that thousands of people if I don’t use functional sales and marketing. I have tried selling with straight talk, vulnerability, compassion… and if I’m interested in running my business into the ground, having to figure out how to pay my rent another way, and serving a tiny fraction of the audience that I currently serve, that stuff works fine. But if I want to have a successful business and a bigger impact on the way men and women find love and intimacy, then I have to reach my audience where they are in their psychology NOW. And “hot girls” work for me as well as they work for Budweiser.
The simple truth is that when a man considers approaching a woman he’s NOT attracted to, he doesn’t feel this vertigo of loss of confidence, so he’s not interested in what I’m talking about. If I say “you’re attracted to her,” then we’re closer. But if I say she’s a super-model, now he can really feel the sweaty palms of his anxiety. My job is to help him gain the self esteem, self trust, and sense of worthiness that allows him to feel confident with any woman, so that he can be “normal” when he meets the one that’s actually important in his life. The truth is, Christian’s wife is a model. And the truth is, she’s a warm, wonderful, funny, slightly whacky, bad-ass adventure-girl… which is why he fell in love with her. But it’s the first truth that sells programs to men who need them.